North American Roads Set v0.8c [30 May 2008] - ** Update **

[wallyweb]

I'm waiting on Oz to sort out work at his end. Although, I suppose I could get the ball rolling on the brick and dirt roads...

What would ancient level crossings look like? For the dirt roads I figure nothing but a bit of gravel between the tracks, maybe a sign. But for the bricks?

In the early years and well into the 50's all level crossings, including those on dirt roads, consisted of wooden railroad ties placed between the tracks. I'm not sure when signals and gates became available in North America so a simple x sign should do.

[Chicago Rail Authority]

An interesting website that may be of some use:

http://www.rxrsignals.net/

[lifeblood]

This could be the most ridiculous website I've ever seen, but thanks for that, CRA.

OZTrans, do you still have some of the temperate sprite sets I sent you? One of the dead-ends is still on a borderless tile in the most recent .grf. (I ask because I'm currently breaking Oz's dirt roads up into sprites )

[Chicago Rail Authority]

This could be the most ridiculous website I've ever seen, but thanks for that, CRA.

Yea, the whole idea of a webring for that kills me.

Anyways... For crossings, is it possible to have more than 1 sprite make up the crossing tile? It would be cool to have 1) basic grass/dirt grade-level crossings 2) crossings with lights 3) crossings with lights and arms that come down and then 4) crossings that have lights/arms and over-road light setups ... something like:

http://www.trains.com/mrr/objects/image ... 06_238.jpg

(arm missing, but you get the point)

[ISA]

Something like this?
Afaik it impossible to code!

[Chicago Rail Authority]

ISA,

Yeah, that's what I was referring to... I'm guessing that RVs simply "drive over" the overhead gates because we cannot split the sprites? No way to "cheat" and use tiles that are more like drive through road stops with bits on either side of the road itself?

Thanks!

PS - Great artwork, btw

[EDIT] I know that I'm taking us a bit off-topic for the US Road set (apologies to the set artists/coders), but perhaps this concept could be revisited when railroad station tiles can be flagged as passable by RVs? Instead of using the standard gameplay code to implement the crossing when laying roads, perhaps then the single "station" tile could be placed by the player... Just a thought [/EDIT]

[ISA]

Yes exactly!
Thanks for that compliment!
I once want to improve US road set with that crossing but then smarter people said thats impossible!

[athanasios]

And it looks so nice.

[OzTrans]

... I once wanted to improve the US road set with that crossing but then smarter people said that's impossible! ...

The crossing shown a bit further up, is indeed impossible to code. Anything that looks higher (covering the track) and in front of the track will be covered by a passing train (the train will run over it, so do any road vehicles, that have anything covering the road).

Each crossing consists of 2 flat sprites (for each direction); 1 displayed without any trains in sight (lights off), if any, the other when train is passing (lights on, if any). Then you can have crossings for above snow, sub-arctic, temperate, rainforest, desert and one for city roads. On top of that, each track system (normal, monorail, ...) could have their own unique crossings.

Of course, we can auto-upgrade the crossings over time as discussed earlier ...

a) dirt with simple sign
b) bitumen with sign
c) bitumen with lights and sign
d) bitumen with boom gates and lights

Currently, the US Roads Set has c) for all crossings but city roads, which have d). Then all crossings would also have bells, we cannot turn them off for some of them.

... do you still have some of the temperate sprite sets I sent you? One of the dead-ends is still on a borderless tile in the most recent .grf. ...

I should, I'll dig 'em up ...

[Chicago Rail Authority]

OzTransLtd,

Thanks for clearing that up. Have 'official' decisions been made about the timing/structure?

If not, I'd like to propose the following (assuming that we only have 3 eras to play with):

1st Era:
Rural Roads = Dirt Roads, Crossings = a)
City Roads = Brick Roads, Crossings = b)

2nd Era:
Rural Roads = ??
City Roads = ??, Crossings = c)

3rd Era:
Rural Roads = current style, Crossings = c)
City Roads = current city style, Crossings = d)

[lifeblood]

Well, I'm holding off on the second generation until Oz returns. Currently we have the brick/dirt for 1921-1945, followed by asphault/asphault for 1945-onwards. If someone else wants to draw surfaces for a second generation, please don't hold back.

For the first generation, it'll probably be something like b) for the bricks, and a) for the dirt. Though I have found images of boom-gates from the 1920s, perhaps we can save that for the second generation.

[lifeblood]

Double post - may offend some

OK, we need bridge surfaces for the brick/dirt era. Brick paved bridges though? Not likely. Wood? Tarmack? Keep in mind that we can limit which bridges are available during this era, so that they can be slower. Perhaps we could even borrow some of the bridges from TTRS3. Recolour and surface 'em. Hmm...

[OzTrans]

... we need bridge surfaces for the brick/dirt era. ... Keep in mind that we can limit which bridges are available during this era, so that they can be slower. ...

Are you thinking of doing more than just sprite replacements; if not you need to be careful when tinkering with the bridges. First, the sides/railings at the front are shared with the rail bridges. Then, some of the approach/departure ramps are shared among some bridges themselves.

We could of course redesign them (or at least some of them) from scratch.

[lifeblood]

I'll get back to you on the bridges. I'm finishing up the road sprites first, and they're looking good. The snowy sprites are unique, I'll say that much.

Now, if there's no objection, I'm only doing standard gauge and narrow gauge level crossings for the 1st generation. No maglevs or monorails. Good?

[Chicago Rail Authority]

First, the sides/railings at the front are shared with the rail bridges. Then, some of the approach/departure ramps are shared among some bridges themselves.

I'm not going to pretend to know the first thing about this, but what about what thgergo states in this post re: keeping rail/road bridge sprites distinct?

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7583&start=360

(Apologies for the cross-post)

...only standard and narrow...

I doubt my opinion carries much weight here, but I agree with your post. My only concern is tram tracks. Are tram crossings (over rail tracks) contemplated by this set?

Also - would it be possible to simply leave the rail pieces as 'magic' blue lines for the crossings, thus allowing any underlying rail set to show through? I'm sure other users play around with things like the CS Rail set, and would appreciate some flexibility (if possible).

...Misc...

Any details that you'd like help with, lifeblood?

[lifeblood]

I doubt my opinion carries much weight here, but I agree with your post. My only concern is tram tracks. Are tram crossings (over rail tracks) contemplated by this set?

Also - would it be possible to simply leave the rail pieces as 'magic' blue lines for the crossings, thus allowing any underlying rail set to show through? I'm sure other users play around with things like the CS Rail set, and would appreciate some flexibility (if possible).

...Misc...

Any details that you'd like help with, lifeblood?

Hey, seeing you're the only one who replied, your opinion carries the most weight. Also, opinions that reduce more work load tend to carry more weight than ones that increase it.

As for compatability with other rail types, this is not something that can be done by leaving the 'rail zone' magic blue. The different rail types need to be hard drawn and coded in.

As for help, I do appreciate the offer, but to be honest the work I'm doing is just cutting, pasting, recolouring, and the like. Nothing major. If you want to draw second generation road surfaces though, feel free.

[Chicago Rail Authority]

... second generation road surfaces...

The only other road surface that comes to mind is cobblestone. Thoughts/opinions???

Are we limited to just three eras, or is that just following suit with other sets?

[Digitalfox]

I'll get back to you on the bridges. I'm finishing up the road sprites first, and they're looking good. The snowy sprites are unique, I'll say that much.

Now, if there's no objection, I'm only doing standard gauge and narrow gauge level crossings for the 1st generation. No maglevs or monorails. Good?

Yep

I agree, if the dirty road disappears before having monorail and maglev are available, theres no need for dirty level crossings of monorail or maglev..

However, if people like the dirty roads, they may only want the dirty road in their games, so they may play with dirty roads even after maglev and monorail is available and then the crossings may be nice

Would it take a lot of work to have them sprites and coding??

Keep the good work...

[lifeblood]

What about a three-surface scheme where, say, 1920-1935 we have bricks/dirt, 1936-1965 concrete/tarmac, and 1966-present we have asphalt?

This was my idea from a while back. Concrete being the urban road, and tarmac being the rural.

We can have more than three surfaces, though...

[Chicago Rail Authority]

I think the three eras as you noted will work just fine. I especially like the timing focus on the New Deal era for the changeover .

Most of my other ideas for surface types and timing require other massive changes to both TTDP and OTTD to work (allowing the player to have an 'alternate' road type which could be placed at will - thus allowing dirt roads for mountain top industries, etc.). For now, then, I think it is as it should be.