[NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

[Andrew350]

Would it be possible to add an option to disallow houses and sidewalks along dirt roads? I use them mainly for forestry/mining and houses don't really fit there.

Sure, that seems reasonable. I'll add it to my to-do list

[alluke]

Thanks, please do the same for 90km/h roads, Theyre mostly connecting smaller towns together.

[Andrew350]

[this is a slightly offtopic rant-idea-thing; and don't worry this isn't directed at you alluke, just thinking out loud here!]

So I've been thinking on all these parameters people want: individual speed limits, introduction dates, houses, etc. for every single roadtype. I totally understand wanting lots of customization, but the sheer amount of parameters it would take to accommodate everything is just massive. I've said before: implementing it isn't a problem, but what holds me back from actually doing it is the thought of opening up the parameter window and just seeing a huge wall of text and numbers, that to most people is just nonsense. I would like for more experienced players to have options to tailor things to their playstyle, but I also don't want the setup to be overwhelming and tedious for everybody else (including me )

What I would love to see, is some form of expandable tree system for the NewGRF parameter window, similar to the game settings window. This way only the "basic" settings could be displayed at first (these are just mockups btw) :

grfsettingsbasic.png (6.47 KiB) Viewed 11245 times

But by clicking on an option it could be expanded out to allow customizing things individually:

grfsettingsexpanded.png (13.53 KiB) Viewed 11245 times

(Bonus points if the so-called "preset" in my example could change the individual values in its child parameters below it on-the-fly, but that might be asking too much )

Just being able to better organize settings and/or hide advanced tweakables behind a collapsible menu would go a long way to make NewGRF setup so much better, especially for new players.

I think something like this would be very useful for many authors who want similar levels of customization without the linear, unorganized settings menu that currently comes with it, but that's just my thoughts. Dunno if any devs read through the graphics forums anymore, but I wanted to put this out there anyway in case someone might feel the desire to make it happen or have some thoughts on it. I at least think it would be very useful and awesome, and would love to see something like it in OpenTTD

[end idea-thing]

[GarryG]

Like that idea with main menu and a sub-menu so it easy to find the sections you want.

Maybe OpenTTD could do something similar in the Selection Menus in game and have the Menu and sub-menus too

Like this menu from my games:

Selection Menu.png (13.96 KiB) Viewed 11223 times

Instead of seeing everythiong that is "AuzAddOns" you would click on it and it would then open up a sub-menu to list them.

Same with the others so all you would see the main folders

AuzAddOns
AuzBeaches
AuzWater
AuzSwamp
AuzLandscape
and so on.

Just click on the one you want to open the sub-menus.

But this wrong place to talk about this too.

Cheers

[Diesel Power]

YES!!! Please do this. I've been waiting for somome to add customisable speed limits since NRT was first muted. The parameter tree is a great idea. Feels intuitive as it matches the setting menu.

[Quast65]

Hiya!

I was customizing your nice roadset a bit Andrew and made a snow-overlay for asphalt roads that matches the one of the dirt-road.

Screenie_SNOW.png (159.4 KiB) Viewed 10944 times

Maybe its also usefull for you

DIRT-ROADS_SNOW_OVERLAY_Quast65.png

(14.31 KiB) Not downloaded yet

(I noticed that one of the snow-lines on the bridges in the screenshot was a bit narrow, fixed that in the overlay-file)

[Andrew350]

Nice I've saved it and will no doubt find use for it in the future to improve the existing snow overlays

[Wahazar]

I would like to update my vehicles newgrf to be compliant with NRT.
For example, I want to disable slow vehicles (horse carriages, farm feeders etc) from entering into HWAY.
How to achieve this? I can't find any source examples

edit:
I defined

Code: Select all

roadtypetable { ROAD, OFFR, HAUL, SAND, DIRT, GRAV, ASPT, HWAY }

and for horse carriages added

Code: Select all

road_type: OFFR;

but it don't work - I can buy/run horse carriages on HWAY.
Same for U&RATT. Probably it is general issue - ROAD type is commonly defined as powered for all road types?

[Kruemelchen]

I would like to update my vehicles newgrf to be compliant with NRT.
For example, I want to disable slow vehicles (horse carriages, farm feeders etc) from entering into HWAY.
How to achieve this? I can't find any source examples

The horse carriages should not have support for HWAY, so you exclude that from the compatible road type list.
Example code is:

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_ROADTYPES, off_road, 1) {
	property {
		label: "OFRD";
		roadtype_flags: bitmask(ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN);
		powered_roadtype_list: ["ROAD", "HAUL", "OFFR", "SAND", "DIRT", "GRAV", "ASPT", "FORD", "FRZN", "IWAY", "SETT", "ASP1", "AUZB", "AUZC", "AUZD", "AUZE", "AUZ5", "AUZF", "AUZ1", "ORD0", "ORD1", "ORD2", "ORD3", "ORD4", "IRD0", "IRD1", "SRD0", "SRD1", "SRD2", "ARD0", "ARD1", "ARD2", "ARD3", "ARD4", "ARD5", "URD0", "URD1"];
	}
}

So, basically, you take a unused label, mark it as hidden, and define your supported road types, i.e. the above lacks support for high speed asphalt roads or highways. (The above labels are mainly from my own sets, supermop's or Garry's road type sets, U&RaTT and this set.)

[Wahazar]

Oh, great, I didn't knew that it is possible to define such 'virtual' road.
If I understand correctly, horse carriages would vanish in case of lack of NRT grf?
(because there is only ROAD in vanilla openttd, which is absent in above list because is bonded to HWAY?)

[Auge]

Hello

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_ROADTYPES, off_road, 1) {
	property {
		roadtype_flags: bitmask(ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN);
	}
}

So, basically, you take a unused label, mark it as hidden, and define your supported road types

A question especially about this flag. The documentation about roadtype properties states the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN to hide the road type from players but make it available to towns. So I would interpret it as only be buildable by towns but not by players. Is it a good idea to make the road type hidden, especially in McZapkie's use case (farm feeders, etc.; roads that have to be built by players)?

Tschö, Auge

[edit]: corrected a typo, ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDED versus ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN

[Kruemelchen]

A question especially about this flag. The documentation about roadtype properties states the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDED to hide the road type from players but make it available to towns. So I would interpret it as only be buildable by towns but not by players. Is it a good idea to make the road type hidden, especially in McZapkie's use case (farm feeders, etc.; roads that have to be built by players)?

Wouldn't you need to set the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD in order for the road type to be usable by towns? I'm using hidden road types in my own sets and there has never been the case of accidental uses by towns.
If I understand McZapkie right, they wouldn't provide a special farm road for the tractors, or did I miss something?

Oh, great, I didn't knew that it is possible to define such 'virtual' road.
If I understand correctly, horse carriages would vanish in case of lack of NRT grf?
(because there is only ROAD in vanilla openttd, which is absent in above list because is bonded to HWAY?)

I put ROAD into the powered_roadtype list, so they would work with or without NRT grfs.
But in case you want to not give vehicles the ability to run on ROAD, but preserve compatibility, you can always check if certain roadtypes are available and, if not, let them run on ROAD.
(they wouldn't vanish, though, just become not-movable)

[Auge]

Hello

A question especially about this flag. The documentation about roadtype properties states the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN to hide the road type from players but make it available to towns. So I would interpret it as only be buildable by towns but not by players. Is it a good idea to make the road type hidden, especially in McZapkie's use case (farm feeders, etc.; roads that have to be built by players)?

Wouldn't you need to set the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD in order for the road type to be usable by towns? I'm using hidden road types in my own sets and there has never been the case of accidental uses by towns.

You are right. The town builds only roads with the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD. But, what's the point of ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN then? Such a road is hidden from the player (so one as a player can not build the road?) and it's not buildable by towns.

Tschö, Auge

[Andrew350]

But, what's the point of ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN then? Such a road is hidden from the player (so one as a player can not build the road?) and it's not buildable by towns

It is for precisely the problem McZapkie is trying to solve: Allow vehicles to drive only on certain roadtypes, even if they are otherwise (in)compatible. It is just some behind-the-scenes magic to allow vehicle NewGRFs to get creative with which roadtypes vehicles can drive on or not.

(It can also be used for other things, but that's the main purpose)

[Wahazar]

BTW, there is small bug: drive-through station placed in town is converting road to dirt, even if better road is chosen (town road is sett).

[Andrew350]

Hmm, is this in an early-start game (pre-1920) by chance?

If so I think it's due to a weird quirk of NRT where road stops always have "rural" road sprites. The special (hidden) early game roadtype is 'faked' so that rural roads are dirt and town roads are sett, which has the unfortunate side effect that when you build a road stop in a town with sett pavement, it reverts to the rural (dirt) sprite instead (no matter which roadtype you have selected).

In essence, the sett pavement that spawns in towns on map generation isn't really sett pavement, it just looks like it. This can be solved by using the convert road tool on the affected stations

[+] Spoiler

(This problem really is bad design on my part, but I think I saw someone was working on a fix to change this behavior in NRT as well. Also thanks for making me check, as I apparently forgot to mention this behavior in the readme. Not that anyone reads those things, but I still should have mentioned it )

[2TallTyler]

This was a bug with NRT and will be fixed in the next release of OpenTTD in April.

https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8400

[Wahazar]

The horse carriages should not have support for HWAY, so you exclude that from the compatible road type list.
Example code is:

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_ROADTYPES, off_road, 1) {
	property {
		label: "OFRD";
		roadtype_flags: bitmask(ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN);
		powered_roadtype_list: ["ROAD", "HAUL", "OFFR", "SAND", "DIRT", "GRAV", "ASPT", "FORD", "FRZN", "IWAY", "SETT", "ASP1", "AUZB", "AUZC", "AUZD", "AUZE", "AUZ5", "AUZF", "AUZ1", "ORD0", "ORD1", "ORD2", "ORD3", "ORD4", "IRD0", "IRD1", "SRD0", "SRD1", "SRD2", "ARD0", "ARD1", "ARD2", "ARD3", "ARD4", "ARD5", "URD0", "URD1"];
	}
}

Weird, I implemented above and have horses going on DIRT or SETT, but not on ROAD nor ASP1 (in case of Rattroads). Are Basic Asphalt an Improved Asphalt roads defined as in original post?

Works well with Ubify road set.

[Andrew350]

Weird, I implemented above and have horses going on DIRT or SETT, but not on ROAD nor ASP1 (in case of Rattroads). Are Basic Asphalt an Improved Asphalt roads defined as in original post?

Yes and no. Due to a mistake of putting the wrong label on the incorrect roadtype, Basic Asphalt is both ROAD and ASP0. In an effort to keep compatibility with existing saves, and to save a "wasted" label, ROAD is still built by towns but hidden while ASP0 is only built by players, with the idea being that eventually the town-built roads will have small visual differences, but for now they are identical. Adding ASP0 to your list should solve the issue.

Sorry it's a bit confusing, I guess I never updated the original post after 1.0 with the new roadtypes and labels. I'll write myself a note to do that later ASP1 is still the same though, so not sure why that wouldn't work.

[Kruemelchen]

Yes and no. Due to a mistake of putting the wrong label on the incorrect roadtype, Basic Asphalt is both ROAD and ASP0. In an effort to keep compatibility with existing saves, and to save a "wasted" label, ROAD is still built by towns but hidden while ASP0 is only built by players, with the idea being that eventually the town-built roads will have small visual differences, but for now they are identical. Adding ASP0 to your list should solve the issue.

That's good to know! Somehow I completely missed that
I'm gonny fix this in my sets, too.