Project Organization Thread

[peter1138]

Here's what I would lay down, if it were up to me:

1) The Set will be GPL.
2) All source files must be kept in a VCS.
3) As OpenGFX is GPL, use sprites from that for tracking and inspiration.
4) Ground tile graphics must be aliased with no overhangs and no alpha. Other graphics can have alpha.
5) Design for standard OpenTTD zoom. Sources can be tweaked later if extra zoom levels become necessary.
6) 3D Rendering is not mandatory, though it will probably simplify things. If rendering, avoid touching up graphics later.

[GeekToo]

And I'd like to add:

-sprite numbering and directory structure in the tar will comply to opengfx, preferably with extra symbolic links to accomodate the 'old' dos and windows grfs

[Ben_Robbins_]

petern:

'4' requires grass (among other things) to be flat at full zoom which I'm sure you very much aware of. This looks nothing short of appalling. I therefore will not be complying to this one. But the rest I am fine with, and have always been aiming for. The bug's that appear from this are not completely unique and do not vanish when meeting this prerequisite. Fencing along railways and hedges around fields both have issues here for example. Therefore '4' stops an existing problem being made greater, than avoiding a problem all together.

[32Bpp-Pack]

Here's what I would lay down, if it were up to me:
1) The Set will be GPL.
2) All source files must be kept in a VCS.
3) As OpenGFX is GPL, use sprites from that for tracking and inspiration.
4) Ground tile graphics must be aliased with no overhangs and no alpha. Other graphics can have alpha.
5) Design for standard OpenTTD zoom. Sources can be tweaked later if extra zoom levels become necessary.
6) 3D Rendering is not mandatory, though it will probably simplify things. If rendering, avoid touching up graphics later.

how about Design for Full zoom tweaked for standard zoom? its is much easier to rollback...
to avoid problems like mentioned by Ben_Robbins_

also 32Bpp Standard zoom vs 8Bpp Standart zoom scaled = not worth the effort.

[Wasila]

As for fixing the wiki, is anyone willing to fix places like the airports section to represent individual sprites as opposed to whole airports?

[Hyronymus]

As for fixing the wiki, is anyone willing to fix places like the airports section to represent individual sprites as opposed to whole airports?

If you register on the Wki you can do it yourself.

[frosch]

petern:

'4' requires grass (among other things) to be flat at full zoom which I'm sure you very much aware of. This looks nothing short of appalling. I therefore will not be complying to this one. But the rest I am fine with, and have always been aiming for. The bug's that appear from this are not completely unique and do not vanish when meeting this prerequisite. Fencing along railways and hedges around fields both have issues here for example. Therefore '4' stops an existing problem being made greater, than avoiding a problem all together.

Just to avoid misunderstanding: You will find noone who is able to make grass in front of foundations look as you want it to. "Flat grass" is a technical requirement, other grass will be overdrawn by foundations and similiar stuff.

[Wasila]

Hyronymus, neither do I know how airport sprites work nor do I know the stages of industry construction. I can, however, update what is correct. I am already registered - aren't the accounts shared with forums now?

[Ben_Robbins_]

frosch: Quite heavy words there. No one actually being able to do it implies near impossibility, rather than no dev's wishing to, which just means it's not in your interest. As I said though, it's not a matter of avoiding a problem arising, it's a matter of not making additional examples of an existing problem.

[petert]

aren't the accounts shared with forums now?

No, the wiki and the forums are two different sites. They cannot be shared.

[Wasila]

Well I seem to have registered at some point in the past then . But am I right in thinking that BaNaNaS, Web Translater (or whatever it's called) and the wiki share accounts? Either way, like I said, I need some one to do the sprites.

[maquinista]

As for fixing the wiki, is anyone willing to fix places like the airports section to represent individual sprites as opposed to whole airports?

Look here:
http://wiki.openttd.org/Stations_Tracks ... raphics%29

Red sprites are done, maybe, I should downsample them to get Z1 and Z2 zoom levels.

Just to avoid misunderstanding: You will find noone who is able to make grass in front of foundations look as you want it to. "Flat grass" is a technical requirement, other grass will be overdrawn by foundations and similiar stuff.

This was discussed some time ago. Tall grass is better than plain grass, but I will release the flat tiles made by Alltaken, It would be a NEW GRF file.

I think that the problem of the grass could be solved drawing the tiles in a different way. The foundations and the ground tile could be drawn as ground sprite. When drawing the other sprites, It could be enough draw only the areas inside the blue square of the ground sprite and the foundation sprite. Some areas of the grass at the sides could be overdrawn by the foundation, but I think that It would look better.

[GeekToo]

Well I seem to have registered at some point in the past then . But am I right in thinking that BaNaNaS, Web Translater (or whatever it's called) and the wiki share accounts? Either way, like I said, I need some one to do the sprites.

No, you don't, it's already there: http://wiki.openttd.org/Stations_Tracks ... raphics%29

Besides, I want to quote Zephyris wise words: stop the talking and start drawing. Or Ben's: lead by example.

In other words, you say you can't code or draw. There are more things to do:
-Update the status of sprites on the wiki, if there's no pngcodeced tar, it is not done.
-Check which tars in Jupix's repository have which license and make an overview of that, so the artists of the ones that do not comply to GPL can be asked to change the license, or be excluded
-Check which sprite-sets in the blend thread, or the extra zoom graphics thread are not yet pngcodeced and start doing that. It really is not that hard to learn, check the stickies, or ask questions on the forums if you don't succeed. Maquinista did a great job in this area, so you can ask him too
-check which pngcodeced sprite sets are not yet in the repository
-etc

Start working your ass off, and other people will follow. I predict that way you'll create a lot more momentum for the project, than telling that *someone* should take the lead, or *someone* should update the wiki, or you need *someone* to split the sprites.

[CommanderZ]

What about changing the graphical style (or better: scale) of the grass tiles - instead of this high lush standing grass use more uniform texture-like flat tiles without that 3D-like effect (like the grass viewed from greater distance). This could maybe look slightly worse in some situations (the natural scenes without bridges, foundations etc.), but much better in all others.

(this is just humble suggestion, I don't really know how would it look in final effect. I surely don't want to throw away what you already achieved, but I understand technical limitations of the game).

[Ben_Robbins_]

I'm not really up for talking about it extensively again, but if you wish to read up on a conversation about it some while ago check here.

Basically as far as I understand (and that's not particularly much!), there are 2 rendered layers. Base sprites, and a 2nd passing of buildings/trees/railway fencing etc. On each pass multiple sprites seem to be able to appear as the embankment foundations and rail tile would appear both on the 2nd pass. Likewise for hedges and field sprites on the base level. In some cases I assume there is some form of 'baking' of sprites into a new sprite for reuse of common appearances such as railway junction combinations of assembled sub-tile sprites. The selector sprites seem to alternate between layers, although retaining last appearance on that layer if this understand is correct though.

Feel free to correct this thoroughly though as I'm guessing based only on what I see on screen.

My question in that link was about shifting sprites onto other layers. Instead of having the embankment sprite and raised railway sprite both appear on the 2nd pass, could they both appear on the base level. I think I may have initially been thinking of just shifting the rail sprite, can't remember without rereading.

I wonder if there would be problems created, as it seems strange that the sprites currently appear where they do.

Buildings in the sprite behind which come to the very tile edge would still be the same, but I think this could be avoided with graphics. This is the only thing I can think of that would still be an issue, but... I have a feeling there is something I've missed.

[Wasila]

I see two development threads - one for extra zoom and one for regular 32bpp. The one for regular 32bpp is much neater (all on one page). Should they be merged? I don't know how many of the graphics done for regular 32bpp have extra zoom levels...

Is this page fully updated? Last done in March so I assume not. I will start collecting the licenses on there but I suggest artists but their releases on there.

EDIT: How do I find the licenses? They are not in the .tars nor can I find them on the forum uploads that I checked.

[Zephyris]

EDIT: How do I find the licenses? They are not in the .tars nor can I find them on the forum uploads that I checked.

Then you pm/email the author to ask for permission to use their graphics under the desired license.

[Wasila]

The desired license being? That's what I was trying to get discussion about.

Also PNG Codec doesn't like me... it closes immediately when I try and open it.

[Zephyris]

I would say pick "GPL v2 or later". It is a well established free license and would match OpenTTD and OpenGFX.

Also PNG Codec doesn't like me... it closes immediately when I try and open it.

Are you trying to run it by douple clicking on it? And does it flash up a command prompt window which closes immediately? IIRC it is a command line only program so you have to run it via a command prompt window in that directory.

[maquinista]

Is this page fully updated? Last done in March so I assume not. I will start collecting the licenses on there but I suggest artists but their releases on there.

This page is not updated because It only has graphics without the two extra zoom levels. The GUI sprites are uploaded in the repository:
http://jupix.info/openttd/gfxdev-repo/i ... file&id=44

I don't know if I added the latest faces that Ben Robbins did.

Also PNG Codec doesn't like me... it closes immediately when I try and open it.

It's a console application. I use it with BAT files. These files have text lines with the commands, and can be edited with Notepad.