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 Post subject: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Attachment:
SuspendedMonorail.gif
SuspendedMonorail.gif [ 239.02 KiB | Viewed 1954 times ]

Suspended Monorail
=================


wallyweb's and kamnet's remake of

Zephyris'


Urban Suspended Monorail (Tramway Replacement)


featuring updated road stop graphics, an all new suspended monorail bridge and a parameter to chose between showing (default) tram tracks or hiding them.
Suspended monorails don't have tram tracks but some players may have standard trams still in use. (View the gif at the top of of this post)

There is a parallel discussion at Simuscape.
Zephyris' original tt-forum topic is here.

There will be a sequel.
Once this project is declared as stable, production work will begin on a NRT tram type version.

GrfID: Suspended Monorail v2.0 52572000
Suspended Monorail Bridge 52572001
License: GPL v2


Attachments:
susmon.tar [374 KiB]
Downloaded 79 times

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Last edited by wallyweb on Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:45 pm 
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That's so cool. I need to download this for all my games! Many kudos


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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:01 pm 
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When you turn off the tram tracks it seems like it has the default temperate grass hardcoded, so it doesn't look good when used with JapanSet Landscape.

Also, working on a little something.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Erato wrote:
When you turn off the tram tracks it seems like it has the default temperate grass hardcoded, so it doesn't look good when used with JapanSet Landscape.
All tram tracks are just an overlay over roads and bridges and, yes, grass too. All the parameter does is replace the tram tracks with transparent blue. I'll have to study the ogfxe_extra code to see where those grass tiles come from. Just curious but did you load the suspended monorail grf before or after the Japan set?

Quote:
Also, working on a little something.
Ooh! I'm looking forward to see what this is all about. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:12 am 
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wallyweb wrote:
All tram tracks are just an overlay over roads and bridges and, yes, grass too. All the parameter does is replace the tram tracks with transparent blue. I'll have to study the ogfxe_extra code to see where those grass tiles come from. Just curious but did you load the suspended monorail grf before or after the Japan set?
I tried both; no difference. The colours do match up properly when I have the tram tracks enabled, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:38 am 
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Erato wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Just curious but did you load the suspended monorail grf before or after the Japan set?
I tried both; no difference. The colours do match up properly when I have the tram tracks enabled, though.
I just checked ogfxe_extra. It is just a set of Action5's which define graphics not in ogfx1_base. The source for the tram tracks is probably buried in the OpenTTD source. I think I'll wait until I convert the monorails to NRT and see then if this persists. I'll definitely test with the Japan set. Thanks for noticing this. :bow:

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:34 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
Once this project is declared as stable, production work will begin on a NRT tram type version.

Sorry, but I do not want to wait and have made some kind of NRT version right now. I hope that my newbie code don't hurt you very much. ^_^
It's just adds MONO type tram track and moves all you vehicles and graphics to it.

Known issues:
  1. GUI graphics included in GRF but now disabled. We need 12 sprites but have only 4. I don't know how to add incomplete spriteset to action 3.
  2. Many minor graphics defects. Look like some kind of catenary_back/front sprites mismatch. However, originall version have this kind of defects too. Maybe we need to fix sprites itself.
  3. I don't sure about this kind of vehicles properly names. Now I calling them «Floating Trams».
  4. I tried to add this version support into Japanese Suspended Monorail Set but complete fails with it. I just decompiled GRF to NFO, then added tramtype translation table after cargo table and property 5 value 2 for each vehicle (see file jsmpatch.sh in attachment for details). But it's don't work. I have no idea why. In HEQS its works properly…


Attachments:
susmon-ratt.zip [101.48 KiB]
Downloaded 26 times
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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:30 pm 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Once this project is declared as stable, production work will begin on a NRT tram type version.

Sorry, but I do not want to wait and have made some kind of NRT version right now. I hope that my newbie code don't hurt you very much. ^_^
It's just adds MONO type tram track and moves all you vehicles and graphics to it.

Known issues:
  1. GUI graphics included in GRF but now disabled. We need 12 sprites but have only 4. I don't know how to add incomplete spriteset to action 3.
  2. Many minor graphics defects. Look like some kind of catenary_back/front sprites mismatch. However, originall version have this kind of defects too. Maybe we need to fix sprites itself.
  3. I don't sure about this kind of vehicles properly names. Now I calling them «Floating Trams».
  4. I tried to add this version support into Japanese Suspended Monorail Set but complete fails with it. I just decompiled GRF to NFO, then added tramtype translation table after cargo table and property 5 value 2 for each vehicle (see file jsmpatch.sh in attachment for details). But it's don't work. I have no idea why. In HEQS its works properly…
You are welcome to try to adapt this to NRT. I have not yet become sufficiently familiar with NRT to be able to provide assistance. The license is GPLv2.

You say you decompiled to get the NFO and graphics? Why? They are already included in the source folder in the tar file posted above.

Although in this release the vehicles are indeed effectively trams, Zephyris' original intent was to create the illusion of a suspended monorail. This is not a monorail that is defined by OpenTTD/TTDPatch.

If you see any issues with the file posted in the first post and provided that you have not altered it, then, by all means, post a screenshot and written description here and I will take a look at it.

Quote:
I don't sure about this kind of vehicles properly names. Now I calling them «Floating Trams».
Suspended Trams might be more accurate for your purposes. Suspended Monorails are in use in Japan and they are described as such. They use the term "suspended" because they hang below the monorail track rather than ride atop the track. The systems in Japan follow roads and hang above the traffic. There are videos on YouTube and it is fun to watch them pass over traffic lights and congestion below.

I wish you well with your project and I regret not being able to help at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:50 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
You say you decompiled to get the NFO and graphics? Why? They are already included in the source folder in the tar file posted above.
Because I had no deal with NML yet >_<
Both my OpenTTD modding attempts, HEQS and your SM, was written in pure NFO…
Yes, I knew that NML is more useful, but I wasn't ready to learn a new language immediately right now.

But, maybe, if I try to use NML for this, it will work?
[+] Spoiler
Actually it's a wrong intense. We need to understand why it fails, rather than trying to do some random thing…

wallyweb wrote:
This is not a monorail that is defined by OpenTTD/TTDPatch.
Of course, they are different. However, RATT uses for tram tracks same names as for rails (ELRL and RAIL). I just continued this tradition and took the name MONO for new track.

wallyweb wrote:
If you see any issues with the file posted in the first post and provided that you have not altered it, then, by all means, post a screenshot and written description here and I will take a look at it.
All versions (original susmon1.1, your susmon2.0, my susmon-ratt) has it. Only your bridge hasn't.
Here:
Attachment:
mono-fail.png
mono-fail.png [ 96.23 KiB | Viewed 1391 times ]
Look like we need to move something from catenary_front to catenary_back.

wallyweb wrote:
Suspended Trams might be more accurate for your purposes.
Ok, if/when I will make new version this name will be used.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:24 pm 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
You say you decompiled to get the NFO and graphics? Why? They are already included in the source folder in the tar file posted above.
Because I had no deal with NML yet >_<
Both my OpenTTD modding attempts, HEQS and your SM, was written in pure NFO…
Yes, I knew that NML is more useful, but I wasn't ready to learn a new language immediately right now.

The files in the source folder in the .tar are both in NFO. :wink:
I don't do NML either. Also, while NML should support trams, it does not support bridges (nor stations either). Michael Blunck's m4nfo does do those.

Quote:
But, maybe, if I try to use NML for this, it will work?
Not for the bridge. For the tram part, follow the instructions described in the NRT topic.

Quote:
wallyweb wrote:
This is not a monorail that is defined by OpenTTD/TTDPatch.
Of course, they are different. However, RATT uses for tram tracks same names as for rails (ELRL and RAIL). I just continued this tradition and took the name MONO for new track.
Sounds good.

Quote:
wallyweb wrote:
If you see any issues with the file posted in the first post and provided that you have not altered it, then, by all means, post a screenshot and written description here and I will take a look at it.
All versions (original susmon1.1, your susmon2.0, my susmon-ratt) has it. Only your bridge hasn't.
Whoa! Good catch. I'll look into it.

Quote:
wallyweb wrote:
Suspended Trams might be more accurate for your purposes.
Ok, if/when I will make new version this name will be used.
Suspended Monorail is probably better. It is consistent with Zephyris's original work.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Oh…
Only now I get it. All this time I used result of GRF decompilation instead your source file.
I don't know how this could happen.
I remember how I compared the result of decompilation and "source" and was surprised that they are the same. Look like I just confused files…

wallyweb wrote:
The files in the source folder in the .tar are both in NFO.
Your sources in NFO.
In NML distributed sources of Japanese set. And only with JSM adaptation I have a problems, susmon-ratt itself works nearly properly.

Also, for experiment I was change to MONO tracktype of one of HEQS vehicles. Its works: a heavy tractor drove on a monorail ^_^
It works. JSM doesn't.

wallyweb wrote:
Quote:
But, maybe, if I try to use NML for this, it will work?
Not for the bridge.
Your bridge work fine and don't need any adaptation. ^_^
I'm about japset.
It was written on NML. I decompile it and edit raw NFO. Maybe NML use some kind of absolute adresation and it was broken after I add new action?

wallyweb wrote:
Suspended Monorail is probably better. It is consistent with Zephyris's original work.
Ok…
Now I probably will try to add my changes to right sources…


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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:18 am 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
...

I have been given clearance to release a different project, so I will be away from this for a couple of days, but after that Suspended Monorail and the issue with the rear pylons is at the top of my todo list.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
Now I probably will try to add my changes to right sources…
Ready.
Next version here.

Also I tried to solve this prooblem:
Erato wrote:
When you turn off the tram tracks it seems like it has the default temperate grass hardcoded, so it doesn't look good when used with JapanSet Landscape.
I changed some sprites, and now it looks like a specially planted lawn:
Image
Attachment:
File comment: Sorry for this link, forum don't want to draw image without this.
mono-win.png [310.29 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
However, looks like I found bug in NRT (or maybe only in Joker): some of this stations is unusable.

wallyweb wrote:
after that Suspended Monorail and the issue with the rear pylons is at the top of my todo list.
Sounds good.
My version has some wrong placed catenary_back sprites, and after this they will be easier to find and changed, I hope.

Also we need to move variant with rail to separate tracktype (for all tram types). In next version I will try it.

P.S. And japanese monoral support… not now. It's a separate project at all. Maybe author will do it himself?


Attachments:
File comment: version 2.0.2 α
susmon-ratt.zip [135.99 KiB]
Downloaded 20 times
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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:57 pm 
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He surely will. But seeing you managed to have JapanSet Landscape, i wonder if there is a possibility for the Monorail to stand over normal tiles ? Because this lawn doesn't look good in Arctic, Tropical (except in the Rainforest) and Toyland...

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:55 am 
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acs121 wrote:
But seeing you managed to have JapanSet Landscape, i wonder if there is a possibility for the Monorail to stand over normal tiles ? Because this lawn doesn't look good in Arctic, Tropical (except in the Rainforest) and Toyland...
I just merged some tiles from OpenGFX and some templates from RattRoads. You can find XCF file in archive. I tried several variants, this one was acceptable (in arctic too, I guess. But probably not in tropical…) Other looked much worse.
But most tile types haven't been tested in this role yet. Feel free to claim the perfect variant that looks excellent over all landscapes.


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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:14 am 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
I changed some sprites, and now it looks like a specially planted lawn:
Image
It looks worse like this tbh, because it draws attention to the problem, instead of drawing attention away from it, or fixing it.

U.N.Owen wrote:
P.S. And japanese monorail support… not now. It's a separate project at all. Maybe author will do it himself?
I'm currently busy working on other projects. :/

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:40 am 
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I'm curious to see what.

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:59 am 
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U.N.Owen wrote:
acs121 wrote:
But seeing you managed to have JapanSet Landscape, i wonder if there is a possibility for the Monorail to stand over normal tiles ? Because this lawn doesn't look good in Arctic, Tropical (except in the Rainforest) and Toyland...
I just merged some tiles from OpenGFX and some templates from RattRoads. You can find XCF file in archive. I tried several variants, this one was acceptable (in arctic too, I guess. But probably not in tropical…) Other looked much worse.
But most tile types haven't been tested in this role yet. Feel free to claim the perfect variant that looks excellent over all landscapes.
I discussed this by PM with Wolf01 back when this problem was first reported. The problem might be that with the hidden track parameter set the baseset groundtile is revealed. It seems that, unlike other features, with railtypes and NRT, the groundtile can't be referenced by sprite number. It is not part of the NRT structure.
Some of the other features use Action2 for layering:
Code:
<Sprite-number> * <Length> 02 07/09/0F/11 <set-id> <num-sprites> <groundsprite> [<buildingsprite> (<xoffset> <yoffset> <zoffset> <xextent> <yextent> <zextent>) | (<xpixeloffset> <ypixeloffset> 80)] ...
I don't see this in railtypes or NRT. How do railtypes and NRT code for layering?

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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:00 am 
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wallyweb wrote:
The problem might be that with
Stop here!
We try to solve this problem by complete wrong way and in wrong place.
And violated the golden rule of programming:
Quote:
Write modules that do only one thing but do it well. Let them work together.
Actually, the problem has already been solved (see screenshot) for default landscapes. And can be solved very easy for Japanese.
I hope to write required adapter (and explain details) before today evening.
Attachment:
mono-tropic.png
mono-tropic.png [ 232.87 KiB | Viewed 1219 times ]
But right now I have to go…


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 Post subject: Re: Suspended Monorail
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Maybe we should make a higher depot for the Suspended Monorail...

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