optimizing

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ANIKHTOS
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optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

With this station layout i experiment in a station that the trains enter and leave from the same side. eliminating the need to make this huge turns that take so much space.

Also i manage to find a solution to something i wanted to do from long time to make the platforms lines of a station with a priority order i choose so the train go to s specific platform and with a specific order.

Which is very important in the station that it let trains enter and leave from same side. But the last line if you permit to leave from same side it will mean that no train can enter at the same time. SO this is the only line that returns from the opposite side. You can choose to return it also from the front but then if this is occupied when leaving you will not be able to allow entering of another train.

The design permits of train to enter and leave at the same time. With the symmetrical station having 2 lines for enter and 2 lines to exit you can have 4 trains operating the station, 2 entering and 2 leaving at the same time.

So guys what you think of my little monster??

i include some save games with the layout and upgrading it to the newer technology. IF you want to see what it is going on.
Any though??


Original POST
now days when i play the game i try to make new junctions, crossing, stations that will be more effective than the ones i build before.

1 big issue i had is how to tell a train to enter in a station at a specific lane order

in the picture i include i would like train to go to lane 1 if occupied to lane 2, or 3 or 4 and last option 5

i manage to make a crazy configuration of track and station build that seems to work

train go first in line 1, then line 2, then line 4!?!?!? then line 3, then line 5??

can anyone say why line 4 is more preferred than line 3??
Attachments
original problem
original problem
station.gif (111.78 KiB) Viewed 2911 times
Henfingley Transport, 6th Apr 1953.sav
start if gane
(365.98 KiB) Downloaded 64 times
Henfingley Transport, 20th Apr 1963.sav
solving the go to specific line porblem
(461.03 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
Last edited by ANIKHTOS on 24 May 2018 03:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Pyoro
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Re: optimizing

Post by Pyoro »

It's all in the pathfinder penalties for crossings I'd say: 4 has not a full crossing while 3 has. Fix that (just extend the diagonal line into nowhere) and it's fixed.
likethis.png
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ANIKHTOS
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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

Pyoro wrote:It's all in the pathfinder penalties for crossings I'd say: 4 has not a full crossing while 3 has. Fix that (just extend the diagonal line into nowhere) and it's fixed.

likethis.png

thanks for your solution
i found another one after many experiments
i just put 1 more light
so the train see the first 3 lines, and after the traffic light see the last 2

thanks for your answer
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station2.gif
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Re: optimizing

Post by Pyoro »

Yeah, distance, crossings and signals determine path penalties, generally. So in your case you could have also build the station like normal but put a different amount of signals before each of them, or different length between signal and station or a different amount of crossings or some combination of those.

It's an interesting idea though to build a station like this to compensation for distance penalties. Never thought about that before; good thinking ^^

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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

Pyoro wrote:Yeah, distance, crossings and signals determine path penalties, generally. So in your case you could have also build the station like normal but put a different amount of signals before each of them, or different length between signal and station or a different amount of crossings or some combination of those.

It's an interesting idea though to build a station like this to compensation for distance penalties. Never thought about that before; good thinking ^^
i try to use the distance penalties in my favour
the idea is another
if train enter in line 1
it can leave the station and any train can enter in station
if train enter in line 2 when it tries to leave it blocks line 1
and so on
so line 5 blocks all entrance in the station
thats why line 5 exit is in the opposite side to not block anything

this design ensures that train can enter and leave station at same time
and since you want them to go back from where they come leaving from the opposite side of the station is a headache to turn them and make network more complex.

this way in a station all but 1 line of the station go easy back from where they come from and only 1 has to go the long way around

this last lien is the ultimate lien if all else are occupied.

i have tried in past to enter train from one side exit them from the other
but when you go at mangle you need to make a very big turn so the traon can go full speed while leaving

how you deal with entering exiting trains in stations??

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Re: optimizing

Post by Pyoro »

I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
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ANIKHTOS
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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

Pyoro wrote:I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
thats what i try to avoid
i do not want the train to exit the other side
i try to make a station where train enter leave same side

line 5 was a choice to leave the other way so it wont block the entrance of the station when the train leaves

any other line allow the train to leave and a train to enter in a line so it is not so much trouble

and if you make the station just big enough you will never use the last line that is problematic a bit

and it is always fun to experiment with new ideas and way to build your network

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Re: optimizing

Post by _dp_ »

Pyoro wrote:I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.

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Re: optimizing

Post by acs121 »

_dp_ wrote:
Pyoro wrote:I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.
It sure is more compact, but roro is extremely performant for terminus stations with very high input / throughput. This is useful with very productive industries like forests or factories.

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ANIKHTOS
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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

acs121 wrote:
_dp_ wrote:
Pyoro wrote:I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.
It sure is more compact, but roro is extremely performant for terminus stations with very high input / throughput. This is useful with very productive industries like forests or factories.
well so far it is pretty efficient
i wait to see the industries to go higher and alter put more lines in the station and trains to see how it handle the traffic so far so good

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Re: optimizing

Post by acs121 »

ANIKHTOS wrote:
acs121 wrote:
_dp_ wrote: What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.
It sure is more compact, but roro is extremely performant for terminus stations with very high input / throughput. This is useful with very productive industries like forests or factories.
well so far it is pretty efficient
i wait to see the industries to go higher and alter put more lines in the station and trains to see how it handle the traffic so far so good
Unless you use Manual Industries (NewGRF) and use cheats, mines will never produce a lot.

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Re: optimizing

Post by _dp_ »

acs121 wrote: It sure is more compact, but roro is extremely performant for terminus stations with very high input / throughput. This is useful with very productive industries like forests or factories.
I tested it for fast electric trains and roro can handle only about 10% more trains for the same number of platforms. Not so extreme. And that was a proper roro with exit merging and stuff, unlike that thing on the picture that will just block itself under load. Also with roro you get slightly less money for the same amount of cargo due to longer route.
Last edited by _dp_ on 23 May 2018 14:45, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: optimizing

Post by acs121 »

_dp_ wrote:
acs121 wrote: It sure is more compact, but roro is extremely performant for terminus stations with very high input / throughput. This is useful with very productive industries like forests or factories.
I tested it for fast electric trains and roro can handle only about 10% more trains for the same number of platforms. Not so extreme. And that was a proper roro with exit merging and stuff, that thing on the picture will just block itself under load. Also with roro you get slightly less money for the same amount of cargo due to longer route.
You tested it with how many trains ? I'm sure 2 or 3 !

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Re: optimizing

Post by _dp_ »

acs121 wrote:
_dp_ wrote:
acs121 wrote: You tested it with how many trains ? I'm sure 2 or 3 !
Huh? How do you even imagine testing stuff like that with 3 trains? I had cross-map 4-lane diagonal line fully saturated with trains. I think it was smth like 60 trains for terminus and 65 for roro.

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Re: optimizing

Post by acs121 »

_dp_ wrote:
acs121 wrote:
_dp_ wrote:
Huh? How do you even imagine testing stuff like that with 3 trains? I had cross-map 4-lane diagonal line fully saturated with trains. I think it was smth like 60 trains for terminus and 65 for roro.
How many tracks and what map size ? 3 tracks and 64x64 ? :O

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Re: optimizing

Post by _dp_ »

acs121 wrote:
_dp_ wrote:
acs121 wrote:
Huh? How do you even imagine testing stuff like that with 3 trains? I had cross-map 4-lane diagonal line fully saturated with trains. I think it was smth like 60 trains for terminus and 65 for roro.
How many tracks and what map size ? 3 tracks and 64x64 ? :O
basically, I was doing this: https://citymania.org/quest/40

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Re: optimizing

Post by Pyoro »

_dp_ wrote:What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.
Obviously, this was just tagged onto the savegame with minimal effort to illustrate the basic idea ^^

The various fancy designs are on here anyway:
https://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station
Or on various OpenTTD coop screenshots.
No reason to repeat them ;)

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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

Pyoro wrote:I don't bother with it. My stations aren't that big or busy generally, and if it becomes too much I build a RoRo-Station. Frankly, with the loop you have due to what you did for line 5, you might as well build the rest as RoRo, too. It won't even take up any extra space.
rororothetrain.png
moved the signal while the first signal worked to make the order of lines as i wanted the problem was it was entering line 4 the wrogn way, taking the route for line 3 and then making a sharp turn to enter line 4

i moved the signal and it works, the lines are now select the right order and the train enter line 4 from the proper track
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Re: optimizing

Post by _dp_ »

Pyoro wrote:
_dp_ wrote:What a hideous station. Any proper terminus is more compact and performs better than your roro.
Obviously, this was just tagged onto the savegame with minimal effort to illustrate the basic idea ^^
I've seen so many people build like that in mp games that just couldn't pass by, sorry :lol:

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Re: optimizing

Post by ANIKHTOS »

well i am happy with what i have done

1. make trains enter station in specific line order
2. make train enter leave same entrance
3. compact design

i have seen the fancy stations in wiki but they take too much space for my taste


as for aesthetics is personal
and this is a game we go for results not looks
in real life everything work much better

and if you have a better design use it
i like to experiment with new design and trying to make the net as compact as possible

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