Silverx50's Workshop

[Quast65]

Not done yet, need to figure out again how I did the see-thru glass effect in NFO, that has been a while
Regarding that effect, is it possible for you to provide the buildings of the main entrance in 2x2 blocks? So four blocks, the one with the NS-logo, the one with the Uni-Leiden advertisement, the one with clock and one without clock. I will then see if I can use the see-thru effect for the big glass areas, that might look better (and less frustrating for you )
If possible, provide just one of those segments, then I can start experimenting to see how it can look.

[Silverx50]

If possible, provide just one of those segments, then I can start experimenting to see how it can look.

here you go. good luck.
still need to rework the roof of the extra pieces. think I should add banners to those as well or leave them empty?

[Silverx50]

I've redrawn the roof so that 1-2-3 line up well.
still have to do it for the overlap tiles, but that is proving a bit more difficult because of the ideas that i had when I drew it.
because I'm wondering how many types of overlaps we should create. the way you've coded it now it's a 2x2 with a tile overlap.
what I had in mind when I drew it was a 1x2 with 2 tile overlap so it would reach the other side of a raised tile.
so should I draw overlaps for the way you coded it and the way I had in mind because the distances are a bit different. I still have more interiors for 1 and 2 that are empty.

another question. do you have the bufferstop sprite? and if I want to have the platforms as the interior do I still have to split it like you said earlier?

[Quast65]

The code is ready!!

Example26.png (88.58 KiB) Viewed 3224 times

I have illustrated the glass-effect with the bomb-tool to show what happens with the now visible interior (it gets darker/shaded)

So... What do I need from you to get them into the Dutch Station Set...

1. Some rework of the outside of the building, especially the placement of the upper row of see-thru glass. Right now it looks like that is placed a bit deeper than the structure with normal windows above it. However, this picture will show that that row of glass is actually the same depth as the structure above it:

Example27.png (751.36 KiB) Viewed 3224 times

Also the corners at the beginning and the end (with the pillars) are a little bit different.
Furthermore, an entrance would be nice (with the NS-logo and DenHaag Centraal, if possible, doesnt have to be readable, just the suggestion of it, like you did with the departurehall), no need to draw glass in there, I think I can probably double up the glass-effect to make those a bit darker see-thru and you can now also draw in the little white doors to give it even more detail.
The lightblue panels above the see-thru glass can get another color (with a bit of texture), maybe you can now use the colors that you used previously for the glass, I think that could look ok.
With these changes I think the exterior would get close enough to the real building.

2. Interior Either just simple concrete or with some extra details, like you did with the departure-halls. To make the see-thru effect useful Keep in mind, it is see-thru, so when other segments are placed next to it, the brown wall of that segment can bee seen!! (mostly via the upper row see-thru glass) So maybe some clever interior work is needed to make sure that wall cant be seen, put some offices or an elevator there Ill make a screenshot of what I mean, but cant put it in here yet. Can only place 3 attachments in a post and the one coming up is more important right now

3. To make my life as a coder (and cutter up of the graphics) a lot easier, I need two versions of the complete building. One completely with interiors and one where the see-thru windows are filled in with a very bright uniform color (so that the interior is not visible anymore), That way I can see what segments I have to use for the see-thru effect. Like I said before, the see-thru effect works like a sort of overlay on the graphics. I only have to draw the glass for that, but it is a lot easier for me to find that if you as the artist provide me with that information. So next to the complete building with interiors something like this:

Example28.png (19.13 KiB) Viewed 3224 times

4. The other three segments, as complete stand-alone buildings. In a previous post you have cut up a large building into a couple of sections, but only the beginning part was useful. The other sections have got the brown wall, but the glass structure at groundlevel is not correct. And to answer one of your questions, I think that the segment without clock should have advertisements, I believe the reallife building is swamped with advertisements nowadays

5. When all 4 sections are completed, flip them and correct the shading for the other direction.

Thats all!! Nice hey, stations...


Now, regarding the departure halls..... These need some discussion...
I have taken a closer look at some pictures of them and I have a couple of remarks/suggestions also regarding your questions and suggestions.

Firstly, the general hight is correct in relation to the main entrance building, roughly half the hight of that building.
However, I dont believe the number of window-rows is correct. You have drawn 5 rows, but if you take the groundlevel in account, there should be 6 rows.
And with regard to the gate where the trams go through. It doesnt have to be that high, for an elevated tram to pass under it a hight of at least 16 pixels is enough (8 for the "bridge" and 8 for the tram on top of that). If you use 6 rows of windows, make it 3 windowrows high. That way 3 windowrows go above it, just like the real building (now there are 2 rows). I think this might look a bit better.

And now, I suggest a major change...
I think it would be better to make all of those segments 2x1 rather than 2x2.
Firstly, you can then get a bit more diversity without using too much space. Looking at what you have drawn for the interiors, there is a lot of free space with just empty concrete. A shame to waste so much valuable space in the game...
Secondly, and this is important regarding your question about buffers and platforms, there is a bit of a coding issue. I can make an entire segment useable by trains or not, but I cant make some tiles of that segment useable and others not. So, you could get an issue with the bufferstops. A 2x2 segment with bufferstops should then be completely unusable by trains, otherwise sometimes the trains will go through the bufferstops (for example with the setting "train stops at end of station"). And that would mean that for a simple bufferstop, you would use 4 tiles, which is again a waste of space...
Taking this in regard, I would suggest to make them 2x1, that way I can also make more versions with different eyecandy on the platforms (empty, with benches, with departure informationboards, etc etc) that can be used by trains, so that a player has more choice.
This would mean that you maybe have to take another look at the pattern of the roof, so that it still looks good when 2x1 sections are placed next to each other...
With regard of splitting up the sprites for platforms that can be used by trains, no need to do that. I only need a 2x1 section with just the windows and roof. I can provide the platforms myself, using stuff that is already in the set and then just simply put the roof over them.

Finally, regarding the overlap.
I actually did code it as a 2x2 and then with 2 tile overlap (so 4x2 in total). However it would indeed be better if it is 2x1 with 2 tile overlap, that also saves space.
Maybe this can work: Would you mind drawing a complete 4x2 section?
So, on the first 2x1 section the gate starts (just before the end of the tile), the next 2 sections have only the top part of the gate and the last 2x1 section has the end part of the gate (just after the beginning of the tile). So for now, disregard the clock and the "Den Haag Centraal" name. That way I can cut it up and experiment a bit, see how it can look, if it will work and show you the results. There is no need just yet for the patterns in the roof, just a plain roof, windows and gate is enough.

Well thats it for now, a lot to think over Feel free to ask about or discuss my suggestions, I think we should be able to make a great station!!

[Quast65]

Lastly, the screenshot showing what is visible when segments are placed next to each other. So you have an idea what you need to cover up with interior:

Example29.png (76.89 KiB) Viewed 3223 times

EDIT: Looking at this building again, I think it should be possible to fit it on 2x1. The grey connection piece at the end to the departure halls is not really needed and the glass extension at the front could be a few pixels less deep.
That way it could fit on a 2x1!!

[Silverx50]

Wow lots to think about and look at......
I'll make the changes to stichthage. it's going to have to figure out how to make the middle and end building line up correctly with the beginning and still be stand alone buildings.

Firstly, the general hight is correct in relation to the main entrance building, roughly half the hight of that building.
However, I dont believe the number of window-rows is correct. You have drawn 5 rows, but if you take the groundlevel in account, there should be 6 rows.
And with regard to the gate where the trams go through. It doesnt have to be that high, for an elevated tram to pass under it a hight of at least 16 pixels is enough (8 for the "bridge" and 8 for the tram on top of that). If you use 6 rows of windows, make it 3 windowrows high. That way 3 windowrows go above it, just like the real building (now there are 2 rows). I think this might look a bit better.

I'll rework this and we'll see how it looks.

And now, I suggest a major change..

making everything 2x1 is a bit of a blow as I spent the time I had today on trying to fix things. but I'll do it as it will end up being better looking based on your descriptions.
and I what it means for the ability to created more variation.

Finally, regarding the overlap.

I'll give this a shot, I'l try to have this done first.

thanks for all the work, I'll get back to work now.

[Quast65]

Sorry about all the possible reworks.... Most of my ideas really come out when I place stuff ingame to see how it actually looks like ingame.
Another plus for making the departurehalls 2x1 is that you also have to take in account that the main-entrance building will be in front of them.
This building will obstruct a lot of things you have drawn in the 2x2 departurehalls, for example the segment with the stairs on the left and those blue/white boxes (shops/offices??), having an empty 2x1 behind the main-entrance building and then placing 2x1's with interesting eyecandy will keep your excellent work visible.

Did you also read my last edit?:

EDIT: Looking at this building again, I think it should be possible to fit it on 2x1. The grey connection piece at the end to the departure halls is not really needed and the glass extension at the front could be a few pixels less deep.
That way it could fit on a 2x1!!

Making it 2x1 saves a lot of room, that can be used for the deaprturehalls.

[Silverx50]

actually missed that last part. I'll redraw it in a 2x1 hopefully it will solve the problem I'm having with the building lining up correctly.
but that will be left for tomorrow. off to bed now.

[Quast65]

I seem to have spotted something....
I have overlayed a 2x1 tile over the roof, and at least one building is cut out too short

Example30.png (37.32 KiB) Viewed 3191 times

I still got some hours to kill, I work mostly nights so I have a night rythm, cant sleep yet... Ill see what I can do (or at least provide you with the general outlines, so you can fill it in with textures).

EDIT
Here you go

DenHaagCS_Quast65.png (16.9 KiB) Viewed 3184 times

I have also reworked the glass out-building to look more like the picture and also added a bit of grey-isch concrete between the upper see-thru and the segment with the small windows (like in the picture).
The blue-isch blocks above the windows are also a bit resized, in the picture the 2 lower windows have a slightly larger one than the upper window.
The major change is that the buildings are a bit longer. So most of the textures can simply be copy/pasted from your previous work, only the roofs and the segment with the small windows might need some extra work, as they have become a bit longer.
I have shaded the buildings, so it is hopefully easier for you to see what should go where
Hope this helps!!! Goodnight

[Silverx50]

Here you go

this is like waking up on Christmas morning.
and you did this really really quickly looking at the time between my last post and you posting this.
thank you, I'll get to work on this.

I seem to have spotted something....
I have overlayed a 2x1 tile over the roof, and at least one building is cut out too short

ah so this is where I went wrong. good to learn this.

[Quast65]

Well.... There were a couple of hours between my initial post and the edit

And another little present, some NS-logo's. Might be useful (and surprisingly hard to do...)

NSlogo_Quast65.png (495 Bytes) Viewed 3167 times

EDIT:
another pair of small ones

NSlogo_Quast65_02.png (302 Bytes) Viewed 3163 times

[Silverx50]

thank you, yeah that logo is hard indeed.
your really good at this. should have stichthage done in a few hours.

[Leanden]

Looking at the transparent glass, i believe you can code it as a seperate overlay sprite, in which case you could drawn the station hall interior on the 2x1 tile with the glass removed and then overlay the transparent layer?

[Silverx50]

Looking at the transparent glass, i believe you can code it as a seperate overlay sprite, in which case you could drawn the station hall interior on the 2x1 tile with the glass removed and then overlay the transparent layer?

that is indeed the plan.

Lastly, the screenshot showing what is visible when segments are placed next to each other. So you have an idea what you need to cover up with interior:

so have done a little bit of work on it today. was wondering about something though.
there is very little room to actually draw shops or add much things due to the second floor blocking most of the view.
second thing, should we make it an open floor plan? or each building stands on its own which would lead to walls in the interiors like I've done in the attached image.

I'll continue finishing up the outside till I hear from you.

[Leanden]

Looking at the transparent glass, i believe you can code it as a seperate overlay sprite, in which case you could drawn the station hall interior on the 2x1 tile with the glass removed and then overlay the transparent layer?

that is indeed the plan.

Lastly, the screenshot showing what is visible when segments are placed next to each other. So you have an idea what you need to cover up with interior:

so have done a little bit of work on it today. was wondering about something though.
there is very little room to actually draw shops or add much things due to the second floor blocking most of the view.
second thing, should we make it an open floor plan? or each building stands on its own which would lead to walls in the interiors like I've done in the attached image.

I'll continue finishing up the outside till I hear from you.

You could always draw it in both ways and have an adjacency callback to remove the middle wall if the buildings are placed side by side. This is how much of the magic in Dutch Road Furniture is achieved.

[Quast65]

You could always draw it in both ways and have an adjacency callback to remove the middle wall if the buildings are placed side by side. This is how much of the magic in Dutch Road Furniture is achieved.

Thats the trick they used for the gantrys over the highways, right? Very clever!
But that set is an Object-set. This building will be a station, is that callback/behaviour also available for stations?

If not, the easiest solution is to make them not fully stand-alone anymore. So, for example, the middle part wont have any walls/windows anymore at the places where they would be visible via the segment next to it.
In those open spaces an interior can be drawn instead, so that when the buildings are placed next to each other it will look like one large open floor plan. I dont have a problem with this easy solution, it just means that the smallest option that would look correct is a beginning with end, so minimal 4 tiles long. That can then be elongated with middle segments.

EDIT:
@Silver, regarding what you have drawn for the outsides: I really like the NS-logo and station-name sign on the beginning-segment, however it might be better to place it for that view a bit more to the left, so more towards the corner of the glass (which might just be in the middle of a 2x1). This sign should then be more placed towards the right for the end-segment and right in the middle for the middle-segments. That way if you only have a building with beginning and end those signs wont be too close to each other. And also if you place middle-segements to elongate the building it would also still look good.
Furthermore, looking at the picture, one of the small window floors of the middle-segement is not ligned up with the other floors:

Example31.png (15.87 KiB) Viewed 3090 times

[Silverx50]

@Silver, regarding what you have drawn for the outsides: I really like the NS-logo and station-name sign on the beginning-segment, however it might be better to place it for that view a bit more to the left, so more towards the corner of the glass (which might just be in the middle of a 2x1). This sign should then be more placed towards the right for the end-segment and right in the middle for the middle-segments. That way if you only have a building with beginning and end those signs wont be too close to each other. And also if you place middle-segements to elongate the building it would also still look good.
Furthermore, looking at the picture, one of the small window floors of the middle-segement is not ligned up with the other floors:

thanks, yes I'll move it more to the outside.
and yes that window is creating a weird visual impairment with it like that I'll fix that too.

furthermore I have the first versions of the 2x1 departure halls.
I think I created what you suggested, if more changes needed let me know.

[Quast65]

thanks, yes I'll move it more to the outside.
and yes that window is creating a weird visual impairment with it like that I'll fix that too.

furthermore I have the first versions of the 2x1 departure halls.
I think I created what you suggested, if more changes needed let me know.

That is exactly what I needed!
Will experiment with it tomorrow and show you the results! The 6 rows of windows and lowered gate look very good by the way!

[Silverx50]

Will experiment with it tomorrow and show you the results! The 6 rows of windows and lowered gate look very good by the way!

great! can't take much credit for the way the 6 rows of windows look, it was your foresight.
I'm almost done with the outside of stichthage, just adding some extra texturing to the roof. after that I'll get working on the interiors again. I'll draw them for an open plan design.

[Leanden]

That callback isn't available, but you can call different sprites depending on the length of station built in one go, I think Canadian Stations does this.