Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

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Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

Hi guys,

i'm reading a lot of reviews on the web about OpenTTD and Simutrans ( for example: http://www.squidoo.com/linux-transport- ... n-showdown ).
Can you give me a list of differences (updated please) between this games and can you tell me which Simutrans features will be included also in OpenTTD?
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by kamnet »

Other than Simultrans offering an underground mode, there is almost no difference between OpenTTD and Simultrans. Due to the way OpenTTD was originally developed, adding an underground mode similar to Simultrans is impossible unless somebody completely re-writes the game. Most of the things that Simultrans offers which is "deeper", "better", etc. are offered in OpenTTD via NewGRFs and patches, which users can compile and add themselves rather than add unwanted bloat to the basic game.

To me, the stability issue is the most important part. The developer's adherence to strict coding standards is the greatest reason why OpenTTD is extremely stable and rarely crashes on its own. It's also why many of those cool features are NOT part of OpenTTD, because their code is not yet mature enough.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

I like the base graphic set in OpenTTD so this is not a problem for me.
I'm really interested in what concerns the features.
For example the underground mode is interesting ,there is just something of similar in OpenTTD? can i build subways, can i use metro trains etc. etc.?
Why so many people say that the economic system is deeper in Simutrans?
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Supercheese »

There are no properly implemented subways in OTTD, but there are a couple attempts to mimic subway-like behavior, like Fake Subways and Subway Stations disguised as parks.

Also, Simutrans can have diagonal roads IIRC, whereas OTTD cannot.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Dwachs »

More answers can be found here:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=63389

My personal list (biased as I belong to the Simutrans development team)

Advantages of Simutrans over OTTD:
--- Passengers and Cargo have destinations
--- Possibility to create complex underground / elevated structures
--- Simutrans can have graphics sets with tile size != 64 pixels Edit: Was not aware of this new ottd feature :)
--- Graphics engine produces less clipping errors for long vehicles and vertical cliffs

Advantages of OTTD over Simutrans:
--- Much more mature online-play capabilities, online content server and the like
--- Much more mature scripting capabilities (AI and goal script)
--- Larger development team

Differences:
--- Tighter rail diagonals in OTTD
--- Airports in Simutrans are build tile-by-tile
--- OTTD auto-slope feature - slopes in Simutrans are available but not created automatically
--- No vehicle refit option in Simutrans
Last edited by Dwachs on 09 Jan 2013 16:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by YNM »

Aactually, this kind of topic is somewhat prohibited. But people may still bang out some.

For your reference, OpenTTD is developed from reverse-engineered TTD, so basically what you got in the game is pretty much the same as the classic TTD. (Well, apart from things like NewGRF, scripts, etc etc., bugfixes, and enchancement, not improvement, of TTD gameplay aspects)

Simutrans is, instead, a TTD-mimicking (not reverse engineering) game developed by a fans, Hajo, but later taken over by the current team. Simutrans tries to improve the TTD gameplay aspect as well as adding whole new things. Thats why it has limitations in a fully different side than OpenTTD, because it started from scratch and doesn't touch any old aspects of original TTD.

So, the best way to is to try them both... both are free, apart from internet usage :mrgreen:
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by SquireJames »

I wouldn't call it reverse engineered, so much as a new game built to do the same things. Reverse Engineering implies taking apart the existing object, then building new ones base on that. TTD was in Assembler code, whereas OTTD is in C# or C++ I believe, something very different. But it's all semantics really, I just thought calling OTTD reverse engineered was somewhat belittling what the devs actually have accomplished.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by YNM »

Well, Ludde did try to make the game as close as possible to TTD - unsure of the way he took...
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by FLHerne »

Dwachs wrote:--- Simutrans can have graphics sets with tile size != 64 pixels
OpenTTD can now, too :P . Up to 256 pixels/tile?
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

Yoursnotmine wrote: So, the best way to is to try them both... both are free, apart from internet usage :mrgreen:
I like OpenTTD because is really free (as in free speech), i don't want to play with Simutrans.
I'm just curious to know if will be "expanded" in the future from the point of view of the features or will be forever the same.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by kamnet »

Guest One wrote:
Yoursnotmine wrote: So, the best way to is to try them both... both are free, apart from internet usage :mrgreen:
I like OpenTTD because is really free (as in free speech), i don't want to play with Simutrans.
I'm just curious to know if will be "expanded" in the future from the point of view of the features or will be forever the same.
Your answer is found in the OpenTTD Development section.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by michael blunck »

Yoursnotmine wrote: Well, Ludde did try to make the game as close as possible to TTD - unsure of the way he took...
IIRC, he was using the IDA data base files ("commented" dis-assembled TTD source code) and the "TTD locations" archive, both put together by Marcin Grzegorczyk for TTDPatch.
Guest One wrote: I like OpenTTD because is really free (as in free speech), i don't want to play with Simutrans.
Since when is Simutrans not free (anymore)?

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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Hyronymus »

michael blunck wrote:
Guest One wrote: I like OpenTTD because is really free (as in free speech), i don't want to play with Simutrans.
Since when is Simutrans not free (anymore)?

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Michael
Good question and I believe Guest One is wrong: http://www.simutrans.com/

Or are there 50 shades of free?
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

michael blunck wrote: Since when is Simutrans not free (anymore)?

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Michael
Simutrans is released under a non-free license ( Artistic License 1.0
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-li ... ticLicense ).
I'm talking about free as in free speech, not free as in free beer :)
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by michael blunck »

Guest One wrote:
michael blunck wrote: Since when is Simutrans not free (anymore)?
Simutrans is released under a non-free license ( Artistic License 1.0
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-li ... ticLicense ).
I'm talking about free as in free speech, not free as in free beer :)
gnu.org wrote: We cannot say that this is a free software license because it is too vague; some passages are too clever for their own good, and their meaning is not clear. We urge you to avoid using it, except as part of the disjunctive license of Perl.
Care to enlighten me where exactly this license differs from the version of GPL OTTD uses? I.e., with respect to code and/or graphics modifications and distribution of said modified files? Mind you that even GPL is not "free as free beer" ...

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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

michael blunck wrote:
Guest One wrote:
michael blunck wrote: Since when is Simutrans not free (anymore)?
Simutrans is released under a non-free license ( Artistic License 1.0
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-li ... ticLicense ).
I'm talking about free as in free speech, not free as in free beer
:)
gnu.org wrote: We cannot say that this is a free software license because it is too
vague; some passages are too clever for their own good, and their
meaning is not clear. We urge you to avoid using it, except as part of
the disjunctive license of Perl.
Care to enlighten me where exactly
this
license
differs from the version of GPL OTTD uses? I.e., with
respect to code and/or graphics modifications and distribution of said
modified files? Mind you that even GPL is not "free as free beer" ...

regards
Michael
GPL is free as in free speech not free as in free beer, i'm saying the same thing ;)
If you want some explanation read here: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10455.0
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by michael blunck »

Guest One wrote:
mb wrote: Care to enlighten me where exactly this license differs from the version of GPL OTTD uses? I.e., with respect to code and/or graphics modifications and distribution of said modified files? Mind you that even GPL is not "free as free beer" ...
GPL is free as in free speech not free as in free beer, i'm saying the same thing ;)
If you want some explanation read here: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10455.0
I don´t see any "explanation" there:
prissi wrote: About licenses claiming more free than other is as much useful as religions claiming more true than others. The artistic licence forbid selling for money, while GNU allows it. Since we want to disallow that, I do not see any way to make this compatible. Moreover, changing the licence is impossible, once fixed. Blame the people who constantly update licences. (OpenTTD has the same "trouble" with GCC 3.0, which was also not around when the first version was released ... )

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?PH ... 8#msg99728
Maybe you´d like to explicate why Simutran´s license should be "non-free", as against OpenTTDs "free" license, and thus back up your original argument?

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Michael
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Guest One »

Because non-commericial in Free Software mean NON-FREE.
Now you know why Simutrans is non-free.
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by Eddi »

while i'm not trying to say the license is "good" in any way (there are some pretty obvious flaws in it), there doesn't seem to be a paragraph that forbids commercial use... the sentence about "you may not charge for this package" can easily be circumvented by this ominous "copying" and "support" fees... and it explicitly allows usage in commercial collections...
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Re: Current differences between OpenTTD and Simutrans

Post by keoz »

Guest One wrote:Because non-commericial in Free Software mean NON-FREE.
Now you know why Simutrans is non-free.
Actually it's a free software, because it is opensource (it's better to speak of "opensource" as "free" which is a polysemic word): that means, you can change the source and you can distribute it. And that means, it's free as in "free as a speech", not just as "free as a beer".

Now, I see that the FSF points out some problems on this licence. I suppose the problem is that the licence allows the code to be used in commercial projects (as the FreeBSD licence). That means, it is even more free as the GPL.

But I'm not a specialist.

Edit: After checking: no, I was wrong about the last point. But still, it's opensource, then it's free. That's all.
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