Transport Tycoon Forums

Posted: **10 Dec 2012 20:22**

Ever been annoyed by not finding the exact right map you wanted to play on?
Those days are over as you can now generate your own ingame by tinckering with the perlin noise parameters.

I present you my first gui for OpenTTD.

Posted: **10 Dec 2012 21:14**

Neat. It would help if the parameters were named more descriptively, but I'll definitely give it a try.

Posted: **11 Dec 2012 14:18**

Neat. It would help if the parameters were named more descriptively,

Any suggestions?
The first parameters are the rough shape and the later ones add the fine detail to the map.
However keep in mind that there might be more than six later on (eg. More heightlevels patch where more parameters are needed to get nice results).

but I'll definitely give it a try.

Cool.
If you find a neat setting, feel free to share it.

As far as the code is concerned,
I think only two things are still missing/need to be changed.
1. The backup values saved in the config file are a placeholder and are meant to be replaced with a means to save presets (like newgr configs).
2. It would be nice if the new gui survided the terrain generation process but only if the generate button is clicked from this gui and within the scenario editor. Working on that ...
3. A live preview of altering the parameters would be great but I would not really know where to start with that honestly. Maybe this should be a seperate patch which also incorporates the map's seed (while altereing it).

Posted: **12 Dec 2012 16:28**

I've fiddled a bit (not enough to fully understand), and it's definitely interesting to try everything. One issue for me is that the "Generate" button in the custom GUI doesn't really do anything - I need to go to the "Generate landscape" window and push the button there. Might also automatically set smoothness to "custom" when the new window is opened - it took a try before I remembered I had to change another setting to actually get the landscape I was looking for.

I also made builds for Windows, Linux and OS X. Linux attached, the rest is here: Windows, 32 bit; OS X, 32 and 64 bit

Posted: **12 Dec 2012 17:48**

I've fiddled a bit (not enough to fully understand), and it's definitely interesting to try everything.

Practice makes perfect.

Try something like this for a quicker understanding.
- Scale 1000, first 1000, rest 0.
- Add second value as 1000, leave rest at 0
- Make third 1000 ...
- etc.

One issue for me is that the "Generate" button in the custom GUI doesn't really do anything - I need to go to the "Generate landscape" window and push the button there

Strange ... both buttons should do the same thing whether actvited from the scenario editor or from the new game menu.
In your version that is .... in mine the new gui is reopened and the smalmap gui is opened too after generating a map from the new gui while in the scenario editor mode. I just need the smalmap to display the terrain automatically too and maybe zoomed out 1 level, only under the same circomstances obviously.

I'll have a looksie again at the version I posted to see what the problem is.

Might also automatically set smoothness to "custom" when the new window is opened - it took a try before I remembered I had to change another setting to actually get the landscape I was looking for.

Already implemented but the gui is not yet redrawn correctly at this point it seems. Thank you for finding that.

I am really considering adding the seed too to the new gui at this point.

Posted: **12 Dec 2012 18:25**

oberhümer wrote:I also made builds for Windows, Linux and OS X.

i noticed that a few times in the past weeks when you posted files: it might be tremendously useful to take more descriptive filenames. e.g. "openttd-<version>-<patch_name>-<OS>". the build system probably does that automatically, if you use the "make bundle_*" commands

Posted: **18 Dec 2012 15:18**

Will do. Anyway, I finally thought of looking at the source code, and:

Code: Select all

[src/tgp.cpp]
00033  * Perlin Noise is a series of "octaves" of random noise added together. By
00034  * reducing the amplitude of the noise with each octave, the first octave of
00035  * noise defines the main terrain sweep, the next the ripples on that, and the
00036  * next the ripples on that. I use 6 octaves, with the amplitude controlled by
00037  * a power ratio, usually known as a persistence or p value. This I vary by the
00038  * smoothness selection, as can be seen in the table below. The closer to 1,
00039  * the more of that octave is added. Each octave is however raised to the power
00040  * of its position in the list, so the last entry in the "smooth" row, 0.35, is
00041  * raised to the power of 6, so can only add 0.001838...  of the amplitude to
00042  * the running total.
00043  *
00044  * In other words; the first p value sets the general shape of the terrain, the
00045  * second sets the major variations to that, ... until finally the smallest
00046  * bumps are added.

Still helpful to have some indication right there.

Posted: **19 Dec 2012 09:05**

That is way too much info to put in a tooltip ...
However it is be possible to put that "Quickie guide to Perlin Noise" in a textfile and open it from within the game. Just need to find out how as I never did that before but it should not be too hard.
How should I name this button? Would "Quickie guide" be fine?
For the ingame tooltip maybe a much shorter version?

Code: Select all

The first parameter sets the general shape of the terrain,
the second sets the major variations to that, ...
until finally the smallest bumps are added.
Click for the long version.

As for the online link, I could perhaps name it "Perlin Noise Online" to make the button smaller and both can fit next to each other in the frame that I might as well rename to "Perlin noise" while I am at it. While the online link is also mentioned in the textfile I do know if it functions in the display of the textfile ingame.

About my current version.
I removed the "Open custom TGP gui" button in the Land Generation gui. I do not know exactly why but the game does not want to register the difficulty change while being in the scenario editor and not doing stuff from the World generation gui itself. I still have the code for it as a seperate patch and will have another looksie to perhaps add it back later on.
Also I did mention adding the seed to this gui ... I still want to do that but I think it is a better idea to finish what I have here for now and add more functionallity later on.
Cleaning up some stuff now, and adding that help-(text)button(tooltip), so that except for code-optimisation there is nothing left to do. If perhaps the Devs are interested in this patch they can already have something to review instead of reading WIP code.

New version coming very soon ... I was almost done untill you had a stroke of genius and looked at the source oberhümer.

Posted: **19 Dec 2012 11:47**

Why not name your "param X" labels with concepts from the tooltip, or even organize the gui around those 3 groups?

Posted: **19 Dec 2012 12:57**

I have not yet given the labels much thought to be honest ...
To quote myself in reply to oberhümer:

Any suggestions?
The first parameters are the rough shape and the later ones add the fine detail to the map.
However keep in mind that there might be more than six later on (eg. More heightlevels patch where more parameters are needed to get nice results on the larger maps).

Alberth wrote: or even organize the gui around those 3 groups?

Now you confused me ... hehe
What 3 groups do you mean?

Posted: **19 Dec 2012 18:44**

ChillCore wrote:
Alberth wrote: or even organize the gui around those 3 groups?
Now you confused me ... hehe
What 3 groups do you mean?

Have a group of parameters called "global shape", one "major variations", and one called "small bumps". It beats labels like "paramX" any day of the week, and frees up the tooltip for other explanations.

Posted: **19 Dec 2012 19:27**

Alberth wrote: Have a group of parameters called "global shape", one "major variations", and one called "small bumps".

I see what you mean now but labeling parameters as belonging to the fin(er)(est) detail would be lying in some cases.
The actual parameter(s) that define the smallbumps varies depending on mapsize. eg. on a 64 * 64 map parameter 5 and 6 will have little to no effect, there it is rather parameter 4 that defines the small bumps. If/when more parameters are added later the lie would become even bigger.

The groupment of the parameters as they are now is accidental.
There is one scale parameter and six noise parameters, with the two spacers that made for a nice 3 by 3 frame.

They could even be re-arranged later on if/when a live preview mode would be added to the gui?

It beats labels like "paramX" any day of the week

I fully agree on that

, and frees up the tooltip for other explanations.

The tooltips of the parameter buttons and value labels are mostly free, except for reading 'click me to change the value', because I did not yet find a good description for the "small bumps" that fits under all circomstances.

I can certainly try grouping and renaming them as you suggest but before doing that I will post a version 2 so I have a backup in safe place in case things go wrong (I am modifying the patches themselves as I go).

----------------------------------------------

Edit:
As promised, attached is version 2.
Below is what each patch adds and what you can expect from it.

Code: Select all

10 feature: Custom smoothness setting:
 - Parameters saved and configurable in config file.
 - Custom option in smoothness dropdown.

20 feature: Custom smoothness parameters gui:
 - Gui auto-opens iff custom smoothness is selected (both for new games and scenario editor).
 - All value fields (and pushbuttons) are clickable to modify values.
 - Gui auto-closes if landgenerator is original or if smoothness is not custom.

30 feature: Custom smoothness gui presets:
 - 4 buttons to load smoothness presets in custom values.

40 feature: Custom smoothness gui help:
 - Link to explanations about perlin noise.

50 feature: Custom smoothness parameters gui generate button:
 In new game mode
 - Besides using the custom values, game is started normally.
 In editor mode
 - Re-opens this gui after mapgeneration.
 - Opens the smallmap after re-opening this gui,
   auto shows heightmap and zooms out 2 levels.
 ^^^ This already gives a somewhat nice test mode

60 feature: Custom smoothness gui cancel, reset, default and OK buttons:
 - Removed closebox from this gui.
 On Cancel
 - Reset live values to last stored in backups.
 - Close this gui.
 On Reset
 - Reset live values to last stored in backups.
 On Default
 - Load defaults in live values.
 On OK
 - Save live values in backups.
 - Close this gui.
 On hotkeys DEL or CTRL+DEL
 - Reset values to last saved in backups.

What still "needs" to be done is
- Rename the parameter labels and define the parameter pushbutton tooltips. (patch 20)
- Open a local helptext file. (patch 40)
- Re-arange the parameters frame? (patch 20)

Other than that I consider the attached patches finished in terms of functionality and ready for review.
That does not mean ofcourse that more functionality can be added in later patches, like re-adding that button I removed, adding the mapseed, mapheight, etc.

Posted: **20 Dec 2012 08:26**

ChillCore wrote: The actual parameter(s) that define the smallbumps varies depending on mapsize. eg. on a 64 * 64 map parameter 5 and 6 will have little to no effect

i don't think this is actually true. the perlin map generation is independent from mapsise, the mapsize only defines how much is cut out of the (infinite) map. you can verify that by generating multiple maps with the same random seed (and disabled overlay functions/"landscape feature size")

Posted: **20 Dec 2012 10:13**

I think you are actually right and I was doing it wrong

You know them little bumps I like so much, to get them to appear, on a 512 * 512 map I needed to increase parameter 6 from 16 to 61. To get them to appear on a 64 * 64 map I need to bump it from 61 to 961.
I was/am getting a similar effect with increasing parameter 4 but on closer inspection this also changes the shape of the map while modyfing paramter 6 does not.
I tried modyfying parameter 6 before on small maps but I was just not pushing hard enough it seems.

--------------
EDIT:

Something like this better for labels?

Posted: **20 Dec 2012 14:12**

the terrain features overlay functions with a detailed description of what they actually do might be helpful

and wth is "perlin noise online"?!?

Posted: **20 Dec 2012 14:20**

Eddi wrote:the terrain features overlay functions with a detailed description of what they actually do might be helpful

and wth is "perlin noise online"?!?

Of course a web shop where you can buy perlin noise of different colours, lengths and amplitudes. Including gift wrapper

SCNR

In order to not be totally unconstructive: I find the option to fine-tune map generation interesting - even though it probably won't get too much use, given that I often only ctrl+click on one of the main menu's climate buttons

Posted: **20 Dec 2012 19:58**

Eddi wrote: and wth is "perlin noise online"?!?

The same link as found in tgp.cpp http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/ ... perlin.htm .

For those that are in the mood for testing ...
- patch 100_21 adjust the parameter labels strings and the tooltips to something more useful, I am still open for suggestions to improve things.

- patch 100_22 adds some hotkey funtionality to the editing and testing of the custom smoothnes values.
Pressing any of the following keys will have the following effect:
- NUMPAD_KEY - opens corresponding querybox
- 8 scale
- 4 very rough shape
- 5 rough shape
- 6 major variations
- 1 minor variations
- 2 details
- 3 fine details
- NUMPAD_ENTER -> generate map with current values; "test mode" in scenario editor.

Both patches are to be merged with patch 20 but for now you apply them on top of patch 60 in v2.0 (in the correct order or you will have conflicts to solve).

Posted: **21 Jan 2015 12:03**

The one before things went really crazy.

I did some cleaning and added some TODOs (in the form of empty patches).
Other than that I rewrote about the whole patch while iterating and adding missing pieces.

Next up is bumping to trunk, expanding the nr of parameters to 9, re-adding the random seed button while most likely rewriting the whole thing for the last (*) time.
Then the other TODOs if I did not already do them inbetween doing the above.

About patch 200_10:
- Some thing need to trickle down into the patches below still (this is just the patch where I work on or on top of most).
- It is not, at least it should not be in the end, needed for the tgen gui to function as it does now.
read: When the patches below are finished it should become a patch of it's own.
- It is a little experiment I want to try on unsuspecting victims and may turn out a disaster or a keeper ... because of the unsuspecting aspect this is all I am going to say and I hope you test first and read the code later.

(*) /crowd goes Moehahahahaha in choir.

Posted: **04 Feb 2015 09:03**

So I finally got 'round to extending the parameters to 9 (+1 for scale).
Also you can manually enter a seed again or generate a random one at will.
I made some other fixes as well but most of them are in the code without affecting the working of the gui.

While the patch is far from done it is perfectly usable.
If someone could be so kind to compile a windows binary (preferably 32-bits so more people can test and toy around) I would apreciate that very much.
I could use some feedback on usability without prior knowledge of what does what and when, primarily to see if my tooltips are any good but also if the way to start games does not confuse "new" players.
You may want to create a seperate config file so that you not litter your current one too much (21 new lines and more inbound that may or may not survive if/when this pacth makes it to trunk)

Note:
I am aware that the presets do not yield nice results, the values are copied from my patchpack which originate before MHL was commited to trunk and some much needed changes were made.
The default custom values are a quick tweak which results in nice-ish terrain that can be used as a base to tune the presets (eg. simply lowering the scale will make the terrain rougher).
If you find some nice values to represent one of the presets feel free to take a screenshot of the tgen gui and I will make them defaults. There are just too many tastes and colours to go around and I'd rather concentrate first on getting the code in shape before tackling that prob.

Anyhoo before I start rambling here is my current version.

ps:
This queue does not contain the TODO-patches so that if someone compiles a binary he /she has no option to apply patches that should not be applied yet because still broken/unfinished
I will post them in a seperate zip if wanted otherwise they will be back in the next version.

pps:
Patch 200_10 ... it is still there because it makes life so much easier while testing (still should be a seperate pacth in the end though).

Posted: **14 Feb 2015 18:28**

The attached version is more or less a backup for me to go back to if something goes terribly wrong while pushing forwards.

If you feel like it please do check out the code but do not apply anything above patch 200, most patches above are empty but those that are not will cause conflicts and will not work anyways.

Patch 200 still serves the purpose of having an easier time while messing about with the smoothness parameters.
The code should work without it aplied too.

If someone could be so kind to compile a windows binary, so people can test and help me tune the preset parameters, I would apreciate that very much.

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