US Set Development Thread

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alphanumeric
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US Set Development Thread

Post by alphanumeric » 01 Feb 2004 18:08

well I dont :shock:

I do live in the US. my most fav are the Diesel engines with side railing\walkpaths on them..

I dont get how you guys can like the look of your euro motors with electric lines on top.. it looks tacky..

I wish more were added into the TT game.. I have noticed their are a few on the Snow levels of TT
Last edited by alphanumeric on 10 Mar 2004 18:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Prof. Frink » 01 Feb 2004 18:12

Well make some then! Instructions for making an NFO file can be found here, just post a topic in the Graphics section of the forums and see who you can recruit to help.

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Post by alphanumeric » 01 Feb 2004 18:14

I am really suprised someone already hasnt added or made the Yellow\blue or Silver\Red Santa Fe motors.. those are most common in western US..

can I hear your guys opinions on my opinion? which do you think looks better?

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Post by Hyronymus » 01 Feb 2004 18:45

It looks better if you support your 'critics' with some do-it-yourself American diesel. If you don't like the European sets, don't use them. Feel free to ask how to edit grf's but do so in the proper forum.

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Post by Flavius » 02 Feb 2004 03:40

It is true there is a serious opening for a USA set, suggest move discussion to Suggestions or Graphics. 8) :)
Last edited by Flavius on 03 Feb 2004 04:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Zimmlock » 02 Feb 2004 11:33

A US train set would be nice, now they have some awsome Diesels an a few electric, but in the past a lot af astonishing steamengines thundered across the continent, European engines from the same period look like bugs compared to these machines.Ill give some examples:
Pennsylvania K4s 4-6-2 (wheel alignment)
Southern Pacific Lines Serie 4151-4176 "cab ahead" 4-8-8-2
Famous the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha streamline 4-6-4
My favorite the New York Central 20th Century Ltd (1938) 4-6-4
Pennsylvania engine nr 6100 6-4-4-6
And last not least the ultimat fright engine developing 10000Hp the Union Pacific Big Boy mallet 4-8-8-4.
There were more intresting designs, but cant mention them all. If foto's are requiered i have.
Looking forward to the development of a US train set 8)

EDIT: for some reason i can't upload a nice image i have of one of these machines, will try later again (png format)
Hodie Mihi Cras Tibi

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Post by Zimmlock » 02 Feb 2004 16:48

:evil: why can't i post an image :!: :!: The file is a png and doesnt exeed 2mb :evil:
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Post by alphanumeric » 02 Feb 2004 17:33

cool.. im glad a few agree with me =)

well their are a few already in the arctic set, and the 1-3 in the new tropicset.. the big DDA40x.. its the pretty long union pacific motor thats all yellow..

can I have this post moved to graphics from a mod? TY :D

I didnt mean for this topic to become a new graphic idea..but I guess it should..

altho my grahpic skills are -100 :? I dont think I should even attempt to make new US style engine sets.. but I could try.. I was thinking of taking the already mad DDA40X and shortning it down so you can multihead it.. maybe even give it a diff color scheam and call it something else..

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Post by ZleDth » 02 Feb 2004 17:50

I WANT A BASH!!!(that's the only info i have off it :p )
Image

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Post by Zimmlock » 02 Feb 2004 18:22

Lets see if this works
Image
YES it does :D
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Post by spaceman-spiff » 02 Feb 2004 19:04

Well , I moved it, now proove my trust :P
Well, back to work, lot's of it in the near future

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Post by krtaylor » 02 Feb 2004 20:55

There are three reasons there hasn't really been an American set for TTD.

1. Historical. Chris Sawyer is a Brit, and most of the original graphics were similar to British trains. Also, if you look around the forums, you'll see the majority of TTD fans are European. I don't know why this is.

2. Practical. US steam locomotives tend to be really long, and they wouldn't easily fit in the confines of the GRF sprites. The longest you can make a loco in TTD is the Centennial diesel, in the Tropicset (which actually is a US loco). That's long enough for some of the steam locos but not the famous ones like the Challenger and Big Boy. You still could make a good set with the Hiawatha (wht you posted), the Pacific, Berkshire, Northern (S.P. Daylight), N&W J and so on. But the really big freight engines just won't fit.

3. Chronological. The original TTD game started in 1950, well past the heyday of US steam. What would be the point of offering engines that were instantly obsolete? Now the patch lets us start in 1930, which would allow a good twenty years of practical steam.

None of these obstacles are definitive now, so maybe the time has come to make a US set. Maybe:

Pacific (general purpose)
Berkshire (heavy freight, but not too long)
Northern (the famous S.P. Daylight is one of these)
Hudson (N.Y.C. streamlined)
GG1 (Art Deco electric loco)
Some cheap boxy electric loco, easy to draw and several choices)
Another freight steam loco, have to do some research
F series diesel, easily redrawn from existing TTD locos
GP diesel, there's one almost identical in the Tropicset
Amtrak diesel, MB has one in the original Arctic set, with matching livery
TurboTrain, MB has one in the original Arctic set, with matching livery
Acela, very similar to ICE, slightly different color
Acela Regional, probably similar to one of the new Alpine locos, different color

There might be a few more to add as "holes" in the roster get detected. I can provide research but I can't draw. Thoughts?

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Post by uzurpator » 02 Feb 2004 21:26

Well - drawing Cab Forwards or other 4 cylinder behemoths is quite feasible if we use the same technique as I used with DDA40x. Also - since mallets are articulated we can use the technique similar to the garrat - ie make the engine from several parts.

BTW - alphanumeric: I dont see anything interesting in the wimpy amercan diesels :mrgreen:

BTW2 - krtaylor - Acela is noting near the technological excillence of ICE. It is heavy, unreliable technical failure with a tendency of self destructive behaviour. BTW - it is sort of funny that the country that claims itsself as a leader in technology hasn't got HSR lines or is shunning electic traction.

OK:

some propsitions for american set in not so chronological order:

EP2 - Bipolar - spectacular electric engine
Yellowstone 2-8-8-2 (afair)
Allegheny - 4-6-6-6
Big-Boy - 4-8-8-4
AC12 Cab forward
GG1 (with tuscan red livery with gold stripe :D)
Cenitpede - (horror on rails)
GP40
DDA40x
e44
aem7
e40
acela
jet train
AC4400
AC6000
sd90mac

someone back me up here ^^
Last edited by uzurpator on 02 Feb 2004 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Arathorn » 02 Feb 2004 21:29

At least their seriously considering building maglevs. When maglev is cheap enough in Europe there will already be a HSR network. :(

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Post by krtaylor » 02 Feb 2004 21:44

I didn't mean that the Acela acually is simlar to ICE, just that it LOOKS like it (at the TTD level).

You may not like the American diesels but it's what there are, and if you want at all a realistic selection you have to include them. There's only a couple anyway. - F series, GP series, Centennial, TurboTrain, and the Amtrak FP40. TurboTrain too, whether you count that as a wimpy diesel or not I dunno. You could include the JetTrain which is certainly not wimpy.

I like your list well enough, I'd just combine it with my list and we'd be good to go. Half of them are the same, or very close to, existing graphics.

I am NOT sure that the DDA40x technique will work that well with American steam, the trouble is that the train's boiler is all in one piece and extends over the whole thing, unlike the Garratts which are in visibly separate, hinged pieces. But it's worth a try anyway, it would look very cool.

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Post by uzurpator » 02 Feb 2004 22:05

krtaylor - I didn;t say I don't like american diesels because they look quite evil and strong (like pretty much all amercian engines) the thing is that in a straight comparsion with european locomotives they are rather unimpressive.

A little fact - there is A LOT of ooh-aah about 6000 hp diesels that rcently came into service yet somehow the fact that german class 103 was known for producing 14000 hp from time to time in the seventies seems to be forgotten.

The front drivers were on a truck that is rotated on a pivot in the middle of the boiler - the boiler can be drawn as a single part with the rear drivers while the front drivers would be a seperate vehicle in front of the consist.

OK - no photo - dexription must suffice
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Post by krtaylor » 02 Feb 2004 22:25

Try it, and see how well it works in practice. I'd just as soon be wrong, it would be great to get some American big-iron going.

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Post by mnorman » 02 Feb 2004 23:17

A little fact - there is A LOT of ooh-aah about 6000 hp diesels that rcently came into service yet somehow the fact that german class 103 was known for producing 14000 hp from time to time in the seventies seems to be forgotten.

One point about this is that the DB class 103 is an electric, and so has the entire power output of a power station availble to it, while a diesel only has the power output of what it can carry. There is also the point that a freaight engine can pull far more than an express engine of the same power, purely because the greater speed of the express engine. I have also looked for values given for the BR 103, as 14,000Hp sound very high. The only value I have found is the one in the DBSet, which only gives it just over 8,000Hp, and the most powerful diesel as ony 4,000Hp, which IIRC is less than the cut-down SD90-43s could do.

another point is that to have american diesel you would need more than the cut-down list seen earlier. I would want at least:
EMD F series
Alco PA-1
EMD GP (any version)
Alco c-424 (I think I got the number right)
EMD SD40
F40
P42
SD60
SW-900 or S-4 (for the small traffic flows and feeders)
A couple of GE locos
Maybe SD80 or SD90

3 or 4 electrics (including GG1)

The centennial and the Turbo train are optional as they are rare and specialised units that were only used on a couple of lines

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Post by krtaylor » 02 Feb 2004 23:32

Yes, but the TurboTrain and Centennial have the advantage of already existing, you don't have to draw them - you can include them for free.

Of course it would be nice to have a longer list. I was giving the minimum reasonable list, then those could be drawn and the set released. After, as time permits, identify holes or really cool looking locos you want included, and add them to update versions.

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Post by alphanumeric » 03 Feb 2004 02:11

BTW - alphanumeric: I dont see anything interesting in the wimpy amercan diesels :mrgreen:



hehe.. I dont know why I like them.. I think cause I grew up around them.. im not a fan of steam, or passenger trains either.. more frieght and 75-00's type of diesels.. I like the catwalks on the sides, and all the cool colors they have...

actually some steam engine look intresting.. especially those huge ones..

another american style I dont like is the F7 type one.. I just have odd taste I guess =)

Krtayler.. those american diesels are the exact ones id love to see in a set..

uzurpator.. who designed the DDA40x? U must have a love for american diesel if you did =) you should hear one in real life.. they rattle your heart :o

im not a real know it all for power ratings in american or euro diesel or electric engines.. whos are better? I always thought americans were really powerful cause I always see a mile long oil tanker trains\contrainer double stack trains with 5 engines in front and a couple in the middle..

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