Transport Tycoon Forums

For the tenth year running it looks like in January 2013, the rail fares in the UK will rise above inflation. I have to say, I find the prices in the UK well beyond ridiculous when compared to other places, such as Australia. Where you can travel the near same length of the entire of the UK, for the same price it would cost us to get to Manchester from London. (Based on an australian ticket from Melbourne to Sydney, a journey of approximately 895KM, or 556 Miles, from Lands End to John o Groats in the UK is approximately 600)

I wonder for how long this will go on untill they decide to do anything to make rail travel a little cheaper, especially in the current financial issues of the UK.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19251068

Yes, its disgusting. Even worse as the petrol fuel duty rise was suspended.

Wotcha gonna do?

teccuk wrote: Wotcha gonna do?

Well, i'll tell you what i'm not going to do. I ain't going to do this this. Cause i know protesting it will do s*** all

Stop the government seeing it as a revenue source and as a source of transport instead?

Wasn't it announced that the railway industry was to receive a massive amount of investment over the next few years for projects? How on earth do they justify raising the prices that much. They are already on the boarder-line for extortionate in most places. Even Norway is cheaper for train travel in comparison

Jolteon wrote:I have to say, I find the prices in the UK well beyond ridiculous when compared to other places, such as Australia. Where you can travel the near same length of the entire of the UK, for the same price it would cost us to get to Manchester from London.

What the great green arkleseizure are you talking about? Quick internets turns up London to Manchester for less than A$20, vs $110 for a Sydney-Melbourne XPT ticket (economy seat, meals not included, 11 hours (average speed: 40mph) on a 30-year-old HST).

Long distance rail travel in Australia is a joke and strictly for tourists or the acutely aviophobic. I've done Brisbane-Sydney on the XPT once and would never do it again; compared to flying, it's a tenth of the speed at twice the cost.

The UK Railway is still subsidised to the tune of about 40%.

The question though, is whether the government should subsidise it any less when road tax cannot possibly come near to road maintenance. Can Owen confirm?

PikkaBird wrote: What the great green arkleseizure are you talking about? Quick internets turns up London to Manchester for less than A$20, vs $110 for a Sydney-Melbourne XPT ticket (economy seat, meals not included, 11 hours (average speed: 40mph) on a 30-year-old HST).

That was based upon a friend I know in Melbourne, and based upon an on-the-spot (non advanced) ticket to London from Manchester (currently about £70 to £80), and the friend in Ausland confirmed they can get from A (Melbourne) to B (Sydney) for lower than 100 AUD using rail (approximately the same cost in GBP)

He also commented on Australian government generally sees Public Transport an accepted loss, and thus do little about making it any more profitable, it's a loss, but it's needed. How much of that is true, i don't know. He claims to be a rail fanatic

JamieLei wrote:The UK Railway is still subsidised to the tune of about 40%

Here in South-East Queensland the public transport subsidy has been creeping up to around 80%, but they have a plan (essentially, increasing fares hand over fist) to try and keep it down to 75%. I don't know if train travel outside the Brisbane area is subsidised, but since it's practically non-existent (a few loco-hauled trains of 1950s rolling stock, running to a calendar rather than a timetable) it probably doesn't matter.

Jolteon wrote:He also commented on Australian government generally sees Public Transport an accepted loss, and thus do little about making it any more profitable, it's a loss, but it's needed. How much of that is true, i don't know. He claims to be a rail fanatic

No government sees anything as an accepted loss. They'd privatise public transport in a second if it were politically possible and if anyone was mug enough to be buying.

Rail fares just will not fall for as long as operators are locked into an ever escalating premium payments regime. It really is that simple.

Somewhere the government will have to decide at what level the subsidy will be 'tolerable'. All we know currently is that 40% is 'too high'. What will be acceptable - 35%? 30%? We just don't have the population densities to have 0% like Japan does on many lines.

Jolteon wrote:

PikkaBird wrote: What the great green arkleseizure are you talking about? Quick internets turns up London to Manchester for less than A$20, vs $110 for a Sydney-Melbourne XPT ticket (economy seat, meals not included, 11 hours (average speed: 40mph) on a 30-year-old HST).

That was based upon a friend I know in Melbourne, and based upon an on-the-spot (non advanced) ticket to London from Manchester (currently about £70 to £80), and the friend in Ausland confirmed they can get from A (Melbourne) to B (Sydney) for lower than 100 AUD using rail (approximately the same cost in GBP)

He also commented on Australian government generally sees Public Transport an accepted loss, and thus do little about making it any more profitable, it's a loss, but it's needed. How much of that is true, i don't know. He claims to be a rail fanatic

I haven't checked but i'm guessing there aren't half hourly XPTs over there between the two. You're not comparing like for like at all.

There's two XPTs a day and the two are much much farther apart than Manchester and London.

This is an attack on all of us, making rail travel unaffordable for many people. If the cost of motoring was going up by a similar amount then it could be seen as fair, but the reality is that the real cost of motoring is going down while train travel goes up.

The solution is to research for cheaper tickets, using MSE's 'Tickety Split', and trainscanbecheaper.info to research possible "splits" and brfares.com to look up ticket prices and restrictions (in a fraction of the time it takes to look up fares on the booking sites) to ensure better value fares are being bought than the fares that the TOCs want you to pay.

It is well worth learning more about the fares structure so you can find out how to legally avoid ludicrously expensive fares by purchasing alternative, valid, tickets that allow journeys to be made at lower cost than the absolutely scandalous fares they charge us for popular journeys.

For example a passenger taking the 0850 Whitby to Middlesbrough train (that doesn't even arrive at Middlesbrough until 1017, and doesn't get you to the East Coast Main Line until even later) who asks for a ticket to Sheffield is asked to pay over £100 because it is considered a "peak" journey. All the customer has to do is ask to split at York and the price reduces to UNDER A THIRD of the price they want you to pay. By ensuring you can find these deals, you can beat the insane price rises and, in fact, lower your costs substantially.

However the major "loopholes" that involve buying a ticket to go FURTHER that costs LESS, are best avoided being published because these loopholes can sometimes be removed by the TOCs. Their idea of removing an anomaly is not to lower the ludicrously expensive fare. Oh no, their idea of removing the anomaly is - in perhaps 90% of cases - to increase the reasonable fare to be extortionate or change the routeing/validity of the ticket so it is no longer useful for the shorter journey that attracts a premium.

I will give one example of how you can beat the rises (that, unlike other examples, isn't in too much danger of the TOCs increasing the fare for): passenger travelling from York to Weeton (only valid via Harrogate) currently has to face a ridiculous £11.30 fare for an off peak day return, and that's before the unfair rises so I dread to think what this fare will be in 2013. It is cheaper and quicker to drive, for sure. A passenger can beat those rises by buying a ticket one stop further, to Horsforth (via Harrogate) priced at £10.30. Even if prices rise by around 10%, your fare will at least be frozen in price.

I was going to start using rail more, but i shat my guts out when i saw the season prices for 7 day / monthly / yearly tickets. Jesus christ

I just use my trusty Nissan Micra more instead. Cheaper, I can go where I need to and carry more, and petrol prices are actually falling at the moment. Its sometimes faster door to door too. I can get real economies when two of us are in the car. Only disadvantage is that I can't work while driving.

Is there anywhere I can find specific TOC/Franchise increases?
Because it won't be the same everywhere

From September I am going to get a proper feel for commuter life. I'll be working in North London for 8 months and living in Guildford and commuting in 5 days a week. The ticket for this time is about £2700, but the placement (which is necessary for me to qualify in the profession I am training) is unpaid. I can see a lot of tesco 7p noodles in my future.

EXTspotter wrote:From September I am going to get a proper feel for commuter life. I'll be working in North London for 8 months and living in Guildford and commuting in 5 days a week. The ticket for this time is about £2700, but the placement (which is necessary for me to qualify in the profession I am training) is unpaid. I can see a lot of tesco 7p noodles in my future.

I hope it pays off in the future.
Is there any way of getting money then?