Transport Tycoon Forums

The long-delayed Intercity Express project gets the green light at last!

And by the look of it, bi-mode trains are still in the running.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2012/07/ ... light.html

I don't like the IEP.

Its like electrifying every mainline in the UK with no option of being behind a Class 37 (which lets be honest, it triggers the best feeling in the world), instead you get a dreary ride behind or in an electric.

Not good.

47407 wrote:I don't like the IEP.

Its like electrifying every mainline in the UK with no option of being behind a Class 37 (which lets be honest, it triggers the best feeling in the world), instead you get a dreary ride behind or in an electric.

Not good.

Poe's law?...

Bizarre decision making really. In other news, Concorde production reinstated and BorisBus...oh wait.

Kevo00 wrote:Concorde production reinstated

Now that would be an Awesome thing to happen! If totally unrealistic!

That does sound a lot like the "Railway Enthusiasts" thread that Geo Ghost made the other day. As for widespread electrification; it is about time that the UK caught up. As diesel becomes more expensive, converting to an electric system which can be powered by many different energy sources makes a massive amount of sense in the long run. We just need to hope that all these projects come in on time and at budget. The railways are starting to see more investment and they really don't need to give more ammunition to anti-public transport groups which skew people's minds about large capital projects like this. Poor performance on this aids people who want to stop HS2 from going ahead, and I am sure that most if not all people on here support that project (at least more than the number that support Bi-mode IEPs!).

Can somebody tell the Bi-modes to p*** off?

Class 165 wrote:Can somebody tell the Bi-modes to p*** off?

Sure, the Bi-mode IEP will make it more expensive, but even with all the electrification plans, there'll still be some significant centres of population beyond the wires. The Dawlish/Teignmouth Sea Wall, for example, will be problematic if the wires ever do expand as far West as that- and can Plymouth and Cornwall really be expected to make do with HSTs (rebuilt or otherwise) that'll be pushing 50 by the time they're retired? The problem is, of course, that as GW/MML wiring expands, many of these Bi-mode sets will be lugging around heavy diesel engines under the wires for no reason. If the trains are built with future conversion to electric only in mind, that'd be an advantage. Alternatively, having surplus Bi-mode sets 10 years down the line might allow other destinations to benefit from new intercity services to London: Barrow, for example, or Aberystwyth (as the IEP sets will surely be compatible with ERTMS!).

From what I remember the bi-mode IEPs designed as (I uploaded a picture showing a technical diagram of them YEARS ago, and it's somewhere in the archives), effectively the bi-mode train is an EMU with a diesel engine at one end. The diesel engine produces electricity which drives the train.

Of course, there's still the issue of lugging the engine around, but it would save a lot of grief for coupling movements which take considerable amounts of time. I've been on Pendolinos that have been coupled to 57s at Nuneaton to drag to New Street, and it's taken a good 15 minutes just to get the bloody thing onto the front.

Surely, the one thing we can all agree on though, is that a bi-mode IEP would be better than than a DMU running under the wires.

So if i understand this correctly the current train consortium; http://www.agilitytrains.com/ is going to deliver the IEP?

Also here some animations:

Bi-mode would make sense on lines with older wiring, too. I've had a few delays due to problems with OHLE which would've been less drastic if the derv engine had been fired up.

True, but the point is that if your OHLE is breaking that often, surely spending money on rebuilding the OHLE would be a smarter idea that shoving diesel engines in everything...

It would, unless you have large swathes of non-electric areas so need diesel traction anyway. I still think it's inefficient to be lugging a diesel engine around, but it can make sense in some setups - new wires are expensive.

As an example, the East Coast Main Line, as a core London - Edinburgh service it is electrified all the way. Thie means that current services to Edinburgh (1 tph), Leeds (2ph), Newcastle (1ph) and Grantham/York (1tph) can all be hauled by electric only trains. In terms of current less frequent routes which can also use electric traction are Glasgow (1tpd), Bradford (1tpd) and Skipton (1tpd). Routes that currently require diesel traction are Aberdeen (3tpd), Inverness (1tpd), Hull (1tpd), Lincoln (1tpd) and Harrogate (1tpd). Putting diesel englines in trains for all the services to the former destinations would seem like a waste of money based on the small number of services which need diesel traction based on current service levels. Based on the "difficulty" for Open Access operators to gain track slots on the ECML during the daytime, when there is a demand for passenger services, it is unlikely that the number of journeys to destinations like Hull, Lincoln, etc, will increase by much over time. It is also true that with rolling electrification, some of these branches will probably be electrified in the next decade or two, e.g. to Hull. Given that to run all the diesel services on the line you would only need about 6 units to run all of them each day, putting diesel motors in around 60 IEPs (EC currently has 31 91 sets and 30 HSTs) seems wasteful.

ECML is electrified to Glasgow Central via Carstairs, and now to Queen Street via Bathgate (although I'd like to see an Intercity 225 down that!). Soon also via Falkirk.

EXT, I didn't know the numbers, so that does indeed seem un-necessary. Would it not make more sense to just have all the IEPs electric and revert to a feeder model of diesel DMUs for the non-electrified parts? If it's not worth electrifying, there probably aren't enough passengers to need a direct service. If there are enough passengers for a direct service, it's worth electrifying. Or so my brain would figure, at least.

This is what there always was. It is only really since open access operaors have sprug up that incumbents have started serving cities outside their core rotues, e.g. Virgin to Wrexham and EC to Hull and Bradford. The core services are already electrified. Hence there is no real need for bi-mode IEPs at EC. If through services to Aberdeen and Inverness are deemed necessary, shove a 67 on the front and drag it there from Haymarket. As it stands I believe that Edinburgh - Dundee - Aberdeen is likely to be electrified in the near futur so it'd only be needed for Inverness services.

I will put my neck on the line and say that for Great Western, there needs to be a EMU IEP and a DMU IEP. The reason for this is simple. Whilst the London - Bristol and South Wales lines will be electrified, the Reading - Taunton line (and beyond) will not. Unlike the ECML (and WCML) the core route is not electrified and probably won't be for a long time (apparently putting it along the sea wall will be difficult and expensive). If the unit was seen as a diesel unit, how much heavier would any kit for making it also run on OHLE make it? Would the increase in weight overall be more beneficial or more costly than the savings you get from running on electric between London and Reading? Hmmm.....

EXTspotter wrote: I will put my neck on the line and say that for Great Western, there needs to be a EMU IEP and a DMU IEP. The reason for this is simple. Whilst the London - Bristol and South Wales lines will be electrified

Does this mean that FGW will be able to operate EMU's from Portsmouth - Cardiff?, freeing up a bunch of 3(?)car 158's for other routes?

No because a. they wouldn't have enough EMUs to operate services outside of the core London Commuters and b. it won't be electrified south of Bath.

Seeing a Class 303 being halled about by a Class 26 at the weekend got me thinking, if Virgin can do it once a week with a 57 and a 390, why cant locol halled EMUs become the norm south of (for example) Exeter?