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In-depth interview with a RPI. Interesting to see how the job is from their angle.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/ap ... on-officer

Thanks for posting this; it's most concerning and highlights dodgy practices at FCC.

"...the two fare dodgers she has just fined ..." is inaccurate; RPIs have no power to issue a fine. It would be illegal!

"...I get a bit of an adrenalin rush when I have to issue a penalty fare, I can't deny it,.." ah, two things become apparent

1) The "fine" was not a fine, in fact it was a Penalty Fare.
2) FCC RPOs admit that they are misusing Penalty Fare legislation.

Perhaps the RPI should find out what a Penalty Fare actually is...

A penalty fare is simply a charge that [a TOC] is allowed to make under the Penalty Fare Regulations and Rules. It is not a fine and anyone who is charged one is not being accused of avoiding, or attempting to avoid, paying his or her fare.

‘Fare dodging’ is a completely different matter. It is a criminal offence and we treat it as such by prosecuting offenders under criminal law.

It's probably more of an indication that the reporter on this story does not understand the subtle difference, rather than FCC doing something illegal.

GurraJG wrote:It's probably more of an indication that the reporter on this story does not understand the subtle difference, rather than FCC doing something illegal.

It is possible that the reporter is changing the terminology used by the RPO, but look at the evidence in the rest of the article, it strongly suggests FCC RPOs (or, at least, this one!) is using PFs as a "punishment" for fare evaders. Even when someone has been caught evading several times, they continue to give out PFs.

There is strong evidence that the PF system is being misused in that article... unless the whole article was made-up, which seems rather unlikely.

You've lost me... how exactly is FCC misusing the system?

The £20 penalty is not enough to deter hardened fare dodgers ...

Why are they issuing PFs to dodgers?

"There's one guy who has nine outstanding penalty charges. I've lost count of how many times he's been caught, and the last time he was told he might go to prison. Another, who gets on at Hitchin, I've caught three times and then I found he has five unpaid charges."

So these people are known dodgers, and they keep getting PFs? Crazy!

The RPO seems to think of PFs as a "fine" issued to "dodgers" when in fact they are not at all a fine, and should not be handed to dodgers (as per the description of what a Penalty Fare is in my post above).

Articles such as this are not good as they spread the myths! But they do show the PF legislation is not being used correctly.

Because if you're caught on the railway without a valid ticket, you receive a penalty fare. If you're caught without a valid ticket on multiple occasions, you can also be prosecuted in addition, I believe.

I'm sure that the RPO and her month of training specifically for the job knows how the penalty fare system works. Of course, I don't work on the railways and I'm sure she knows what she's doing.

JamieLei wrote:Because if you're caught on the railway without a valid ticket, you receive a penalty fare.

But they should not be using the term "dodger" for anyone who they issue a PF to, because "...anyone who is charged one is not being accused of avoiding, or attempting to avoid, paying his or her fare..." "Fare dodging’ is a completely different matter." the article completely goes against these principles!

JamieLei wrote: If you're caught without a valid ticket on multiple occasions, you can also be prosecuted in addition, I believe.

If someone is, as they say, 'fare dodging', then a PF is not supposed to be charged and it is supposed to be prosecuted. It's a myth (that articles like this perpetuate!) that a PF is a 'punishment' for 'fare dodgers' and that you need to have multiple PFs issued to be prosecuted.

This article is highly misleading!

JamieLei wrote: I'm sure that the RPO and her month of training specifically for the job knows how the penalty fare system works. Of course, I don't work on the railways and I'm sure she knows what she's doing.

So, if she knows how it works, why is she apparently calling PFs a fine (which they're not) and issuing PFs to fare dodgers (either she is incorrectly calling people dodgers, or she is letting people off, or both!), and why do repeat dodgers just get charged a fare each time?

If you don't know how PFs and prosecutions work, you can't be sure that the correct procedures are being followed? Perhaps they are but the actions described in the article, and the terminology used, strongly suggests they are not.

If you travel without a valid ticket, you can be issued with a penalty fare, correct? If you avoid paying to proper fare, and you do so willingly, you're traveling without a valid ticket, correct? So if you avoid paying the proper fare, you can be issued witha penalty fare, correct? It's probably a lot cheaper to just issue people who avoid paying for a ticket with a bunch of penalty fares rather than prosecute them. I know being issued witha penalty fare doesn't necessarily imply that you're willingly trying to avoid paying for the correct ticket, but at the same time, if you are, you can be issued with a penalty fare as well.

We've all effed it at least once.

I remember when there was a surprise ticket check at Southbourne (where loads of teen scholars get off every morning, with me)
there were about 20-30 people kept behind without tickets. Its an interesting issue, as there was a small minority group that simply refused as they said it was too expensive and would never pay any more as a result... very odd.

Dave W wrote:We've all effed it at least once.

Never intentionally. Couple of times by accident with Oyster in peak times and a few times because the guard hasn't bothered appearing from the back cab.

Pffft. I did haha. I'm a horrible person haha.

Erm, so is a penalty fare just a ticket which is more expensive because you buy it on a train? Or is it "actually" forbidden to get on a train without a ticket?

In Austria you can get on intercity trains without a ticket and simply buy it there (slightly more expensive), but if you're on regional trains without a ticket, you have to pay a "fine" (or whatever it would be called in Britain) or 60 € or so.

Dave W wrote:We've all effed it at least once.

i've made the 3 hour train journey from plymouth to home, without having my ticket checked once, before. sometimes they seem to really drop the ball.

doktorhonig wrote:Erm, so is a penalty fare just a ticket which is more expensive because you buy it on a train? Or is it "actually" forbidden to get on a train without a ticket?

In Austria you can get on intercity trains without a ticket and simply buy it there (slightly more expensive), but if you're on regional trains without a ticket, you have to pay a "fine" (or whatever it would be called in Britain) or 60 € or so.

It depends on what line it is. Generally for commuter services where there are ticket machines at every station, you must buy your ticket before you get on, or you're liable to a penalty fare or double the standard single fare (no discounts) to the next station. Of course, if there are no ticket buying facilities, you can buy whatever ticket you want on the train.

On intercity trains, in general you CAN buy on board the train. However you're not able to get ANY discounts. This includes off-peak fares and railcars. So unless you're buying a standard fare in the peak, then it's no point at all.

A lot of confusion arises when two companies operate between the same destinations, and one has a penalty fare policy and the other does. Birmingham to Coventry for instance.

yorkie wrote:Thanks for posting this; it's most concerning and highlights dodgy practices at FCC.

As always. I've only ever met one decent RPO on a first capital service who were young but very friendly and was actually able to make some people smile. How he acts to anyone without a ticket, I do not know. But I'd guess it is in a friendly and civilised manner rather than "you've not got a valid ticket. Give us money now" attitude that i have seen before.

When I'm on southeastern, the guards/RPOs are much friendlier and even engage in conversation a little bit. Wishing you a pleasent journey, very friendly, always smiling. On one occasion, one of them asked where I got my NSE ticket wallet from which showed he wasn't just doing his job, but he actually had a genuine interest in the rail industry.

There are times when buying a ticket isn't possible and people get in trouble for it. Knebworth for example has only one ticket machine and the office is forever shut. On one occassion I remember seeing the Permit to Travel machine not working and the ticket machine was out of service. I wasn't travelling then but for anyone else, how are they suppose to buy a ticket?
This has also happened at Hatfield. 4 machines and at one time the ticket office was shut, preventing use of two of them, one of the outside ones was out of service and the only working one was very slow and a line of 10 people was behind it. In the end, I just had to go an jump on the train without a ticket. Not something I like doing, but I wasn't keen on waiting an hour for the next train.

One of my friends has also been fined for standing in the first class section of a 317 (if you can even call it first class that is.) Now, usually you'd think "It's his fault for doing so" but this was the morning rush hour and the train was quite packed to the point it was difficult to stand by the doors. A first class section on a 317 takes up a good 2/3rds of one coach - that's a lot of space. For a ticket officer to demand a fine for someone simple standing at the end because there's no one else is diabolical. As well as that, they threatened to take it to court if he didn't pay more. Absolutely outrageous.

Damit, I've ended up posting more than I intended to again.