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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:15 pm 
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I've been working on coding and things, now I have a testing version to release, it's far from finished, so first I'll get the list of known issues out of the way :D
Known Issues:
* BB 12000 length might not be right - yet
* Train's power output won't change on different voltage tracks, hopefully will fix for next release.
* Multiple voltage trains run on all voltages, not possible to select specific ones yet.
* Depot sprites are not correctly aligned, I think you can tweak depot sprites somewhere, it will be fixed.
* No trains have fancy purchase menu sprites and they are misaligned :D
* No modified running or purchase costs, yet
* Probably a bunch of other things I've forgotten.

And now the features :wink:
Current release features:
* BB 12000, BB 26000 and CC 40100 locomotives
* All TGV train-sets complete Sud-Est, La Poste, Atlantique, Réseau, Thalys, Duplex, POS
* Parameters to disable selective groups of rolling stock.
* Nu Tracks support
* TOE-Tracks Support
* Language file!

Things planned for next test release:
* AVG, AVG Duplex and AVG La Poste
* Varying power as trains run on tracks with different voltages
* Code up a few more trains
* Variation on prices

Things I would like to do someday:
* More advanced parameters
* Real life colour parameter using colour mapping callback

Thanks for taking a look, if you do find any problems or have any suggestions please post them in the topic so I can fix/implement them :)

Thanks,

Lawton27

original post:

Hello there,

This is my new project, the SNCF Set will aim to be a company colored representation of french trains.

I know there is an existing french set but I've seen little action on it recently and it is not in company colours anyway :D . Almost half of the locomotives I've identified so far to include in the set have already been drawn elsewhere for other sets so I've tried to contact the artists and gain permission to use these sprites in the set which will give the set a great start.

I appreciate I'm likely to end up doing most of the spriting (and coding :lol: ) myself but if anyone wants to help however small that would be great, I'd like to know if there's any important french train's I've missed or if any of the trains I have lined up have nicknames at the moment they all have rather systematic names which might not look nice in the buy menu. If anyone knows where I can get sprites for trains which I haven't already got them for that would also be appreciated.

I've attached a spreadsheet detailing the trains I would like to include so far, I've also jotted them down here so you can have a quick look if you want.

Thanks,

Lawton27


Attachments:
Release1Pic.png
Release1Pic.png [ 191.35 KiB | Viewed 4186 times ]
SNCF.grf [50.12 KiB]
Downloaded 502 times
english.lng [1.41 KiB]
Downloaded 120 times

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Last edited by lawton27 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:30 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:41 pm 
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yay! that s a project i ll keep an eye on !

allready dreaming of me using it on the awesome and huge france map created by Saucisse de toulouse !!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:56 pm 
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lawton27 wrote:
I know there is an existing french set but I've seen little action on it recently

Actually, there is a lot of activity on it, although behind the scenes. In any case, good luck with your project, too ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:13 pm 
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Perhaps we could help each other out at some point, FRTS will we company colored so hopefully we work towards different enough aims.

Thanks to both of you for the positive comments anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Perhaps.. Also, the French Trains set wilL start in 1840 and will be based on original graphics only (as opposed to taking sprites from other sets), using real-world liveries, so the graphics will be different, too.

Just one thing.. I know I might seem an arse :roll: but our existing set is really called "French Trains Set".. would you mind naming your set perhaps with a clearer reference to the fact it's 2cc-based?
I'd hate to come across as demanding, I just think it'd be more practical and could avoid confusion in the future :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Sure thing, I originally wanted to call it something to do with company colours but I couldn't think of a good acronym :D

I'll have a think, I'm open to ideas.

EDIT: I think FCCS should do, can always change it as not too far down the line yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:39 am 
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As for naming, why not use the name of the French railway company, SNCF if I'm not mistaken? It might reduce confusion, as both the "French Company Coloured Set" and the "French Train Set" could be abbreviated as "French Set". Several projects include the name of the railway company, like the BROS and the DB-Set.

Could always name it like "CC SNCF Trainset", or "SNCF Set". It doesn't necessarily need to contain "CC" or "2cc", like sets like the UKRS and Av8 don't have either.

Just ideas here, but I'm quite sure most people will shorten the current name to "French Set", because people can be lazy by nature :P

EDIT: Or steal the TOE's naming and go "Trains of France".

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:00 am 
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Sncf in the name might limit you to produce locos only after sncf have been created no? so not very suitable for trains before 1938!!
Also, even if SNCF is clearly the railroad company in France, i think there is some others too...(RATP run suburbans trains, i can t think of another right now, but i bet there is others too)

i would propose the RFF trainset (reseau ferré de françe). That s the company that own all the tracks used by SNCF, and would not limit you to one company. but to anytrain running on the French railways.

or simply the 2CC French train set.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:38 am 
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romazoon wrote:
Sncf in the name might limit you to produce locos only after sncf have been created no?


A name doesn't need to limit you in any way. The Dutch Trainset includes trains from Belgium, Germany and France because those operate (partly) in the Netherlands. I never heard anyone complain about that. I think there's several other sets out there which do the same.

Quote:
i would propose the RFF trainset (reseau ferré de françe). That s the company that own all the tracks used by SNCF


I wouldn't. The RFF is probably unknown for anyone outside France. Though I doubt how well known the SNCF is, I have the feeling more people know what the SNCF is than what the RFF is.

I would recommend a name which is easy to remember, easy to pronounce, short or easily abbreviated.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:39 am 
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romazoon wrote:
i would propose the RFF trainset (reseau ferré de françe).


A good idea but the mighty Wikipedia tells me that that company was only established in 1997, which in my opinion would make it a less suited name than the SNCF Set.

Personally I like the idea of an SNCF set for the reasons Purno has just beat me to saying :lol: , there's still allot of game play purely in the SNCF era and I don't think it would be too out of place to have earlier locomotives as the SNCF was formed from a combination of the major french railways of the time.

As always open to suggestions :)

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:02 pm 
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well no problem let s keep RFF for an eventual future French track graphic then (would be more adapted) :]

note guys i haven t said i don t like SNCF as a name.... i actually like it :mrgreen: . but "to me" it will be strange to find locos that Sncf never used... I would really think something generic would fit better, what about : French Railways Colored Company Trains Set (FRCCTS), note the FR(often used to designate france).... the colored Company for 2CC, and TS could be left over or added.

But i m just proposing, it also seems that this Set will be so much based on SNCF stuff...that maybe you just can t avoid naming it like this! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Hi, I have something you may want :D
Attachment:
File comment: BB 12000 sprites
bb12000.png
bb12000.png [ 2.27 KiB | Viewed 4675 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: CC 40100 sprites
40100.png
40100.png [ 2.77 KiB | Viewed 4675 times ]

I have planned for a few more French engines in TOE-Generic, I will share them with you as well once I have drawn them (or someone else has)

Have you considered making this set compatible with TOE-Tracks? A French set is the perfect candidate for this as France uses two different voltage systems (1500V DC and 25 KV AC). The AC and DC locomotives would then run on their distinctive voltage systems, with only non-electric trains and dual voltage trains being able to go between them :wink: It is perfectly possible to code it so that it remains fully functional by itself.

Good luck with this set,

Jake

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Thanks for them sprites I'll be sure to include them in the set, if/when I draw some sprites for the set you're more than welcome to include them in the TOE-Generic set. :)

I've thought about track sets, personally I think that it's too much fuss to differentiate between different voltages, but ideally I'd like this set to be playable with most rail type sets and designed specifically with high speed rail types in mind. So I think it would be great to have the set TOE tracks compatible, it will mean more work :D but if it means a better set I'm all for it.

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am 
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Hi there :)

Lawton27 just asked me for permission to use my sprites for the French steamers that are included in the 2CC set.

Well, as most of you know, I've never had any problems sharing my graphics or even drawing for other sets ;) so, in principle, I would have no problems sharing those two steamers (or other graphics) with anyone.

To be honest, however, I fail to see how having a second trainset based in France sharing exactly the same graphics (with just a different color) as the "original" French set might add value to the TTD community.

I'll be happy if this set develops and reaches completion. However, I quite frankly can't see the point of having two sets based on the same country sharing the same sprites. If there's gonna be a second set based on France, I'd rather see it with graphics of its own and a different style. Then, players can choose the one with the graphic style they prefer. Don't you also think so?

I understand that the French set development has gone slowly in the past few years. I probably chose the best nickname for myself :D Now I'm learning how to code, so new progress is being made, and I can tell you that set will be finished sooner or later. If someone else wants to draw French trains for another set, I obviously have no problems with that, but I see no point in including the same graphics that will be included in a forthcoming set based on the same country, which btw I've been working on for quite some time now.

In the past, I was eager to share my graphics with the 2cc set, because that's a set based on the railways of the entire world, so the scope is clearly different from the French set. I also had fun drawing "foreign" engines such as the Polish okz32 and the Big Boy. But in this case, the thing is different.

As a matter of fact, I've already drawn the graphics for almost all the steamers on this set's list, as well as a few electrics. But those will be part of the French set. What should we do? Include them all here, too?... Well, I'd rather see something original here ;)

Needless to say, I can provide any technical help and constructive criticism for any new graphics being made here. Just, I think it's going to be better if each of the two trainsets sticks on its graphic style!

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:52 am 
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If they French Trainset plans on having different liveries, why not add a 2cc livery or perhaps even a parameter to switch between real-color and 2cc sprites?

Big advantage of this is that you share the code. Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

Disadvantage could be that both sets need identical code (not necessarily). Usually real-color sets are more realistic when it comes to train consists, while 2cc sets are usually back to basics.

I gotta agree with Snail that having two French sets in progress seems like a waste of resources. Together it might be faster to release a full French set, rather than having two half-finished sets.

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:26 am 
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Purno wrote:
If they French Trainset plans on having different liveries, why not add a 2cc livery or perhaps even a parameter to switch between real-color and 2cc sprites?

LOL

- "adding a 2cc livery" would mean to double the real sprites used. In fact it´ll come quite close to having 2 sets in one,
- "adding even a parameter" is close, but no cigar. You seem to have no idea how a set works, code-wise. Yet, you´d like to enter this discussion about graphics usage on a technical level.

Purno wrote:
Big advantage of this is that you share the code. Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

What for heaven´s sake are you talking about?

Purno wrote:
I gotta agree with Snail that having two French sets in progress seems like a waste of resources. Together it might be faster to release a full French set, rather than having two half-finished sets.

- Each person has a right to make his own set(s). There´s no reason to care for "waste of resources" as a casual bystander,
- From my understanding, Snail does not like the mixup and re-use of vehicle graphics in each and every set, an attitude which has recently emerged in this "community" as a quick and dirty method to produce "new" vehicle sets, and refuses to take part in it. I do share his reservations on this point, it´s fully understandable.

regards
Michael

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:42 am 
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michael blunck wrote:
Purno wrote:
If they French Trainset plans on having different liveries, why not add a 2cc livery or perhaps even a parameter to switch between real-color and 2cc sprites?

LOL

- "adding a 2cc livery" would mean to double the real sprites used. In fact it´ll come quite close to having 2 sets in one,
- "adding even a parameter" is close, but no cigar. You seem to have no idea how a set works, code-wise. Yet, you´d like to enter this discussion about graphics usage on a technical level.


FYI I do have some coding experience, I may not know all, but enough for me to consider thinking along. If Snail and lawton27 don't appreciate me thinking along, they can say so themselves.

Quote:
Purno wrote:
Big advantage of this is that you share the code. Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

What for heaven´s sake are you talking about?


I'm pretty sure code about the behavior of consists and the general stats like capacity and speed can be used for both real-color trains and their 2cc variant. That's what I'm talking about, for heaven's sake.

Quote:
- Each person has a right to make his own set(s). There´s no reason to care for "waste of resources" as a casual bystander,


I'm not talking about rights. If they want to make their own set, I won't stop them. I'm only mentioning my point of view on a discussion forum.

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:52 am 
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Purno wrote:
mb wrote:
Purno wrote:
Big advantage of this is that you share the code. Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

What for heaven´s sake are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure code about the behavior of consists and the general stats like capacity and speed can be used for both real-color trains and their 2cc variant. That's what I'm talking about, for heaven's sake.

Well, you don´t seem to understand your own writing then. Your original sentence makes no sense from a logical POV:

Purno wrote:
Big advantage of this is that you share the code.

You´re proposing to unite both sets, because you feel large parts of their code would be identical.

Purno wrote:
Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

You´re proposing to keep both sets separated.

qed

regards
Michael

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:38 am 
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Well Snail I perfectly understand your point, my problem is to be fair to my own talents I'm not the greatest at spiriting especially from scratch and you seam to be the only person who has ever drawn french steamers :D

So as I see it we have two options, firstly the one which I see can solve all problems which is what Purno is trying to get at that we work together (perhaps what I should have offered to do from the start), you mentioned you don't have all the same sprites as me so if well pool together we can produce a better set, obviously in real liveries for now since your number of sprites far outweigh mine. If I do the coding that can leave you to the drawing. I'm not the best at code and I'm not sure how far you got into learning but surly if we where both to focus on separate objectives we could complete the set in a faster time.
Of course the second option if you don't want to work together is we simply continue as we where, I'll probably drop the inclusion of steam locomotives and merely focus on what I have the sprites for and set out to do in my first plan.

I hope you'll conciser my offer, hopefully either way we can find a solution to this.

Thanks,

Lawton27

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 Post subject: Re: SNCF Set [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:09 pm 
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michael blunck wrote:
[...]
You´re proposing to unite both sets, because you feel large parts of their code would be identical.

Purno wrote:
Additionally, there's no confusion between the two train sets.

You´re proposing to keep both sets separated.

qed

regards
Michael

Can we stop the bickering now, please? It's wiser to not hit reply if the result has an irritating tone and mocks a quoted person.

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