Transport Tycoon Forums

Hello,
While playing game, I found that you are no longer able to remove any grfs; Ver 1.0.5 allowed it though
Is there a way i can do it?

Not.

Unlike what you may think, NewGRFs are not additions you can 'plug-in'. They are fully integrated in the game code, and manage internal data structures.
When you change them, you are changing game code while the game is running.
A good recipe for disaster.

We constantly got lots of bug reports of people changing (either adding or removing) NewGRFs in the game, anything from crashes (despite the red error box) to disappearing industries, vehicles, cargoes, and the like.
Apparently, the red error box does not cause people to think twice before messing up their game. Nor does it stop them reporting problems despite the red error box.

Therefore, we disabled it.

So it was like this for me
I started a game with EGrvs vehicles, and played only with trains for about 5 years, now I want to remove egrvs from the list and play with Opengfx+ Roadvehicles. I know i can do it without a bug.
Previously, i was using firs 0.5.0, and found a bug, then i removed it (from Openttd 1.5.0) while playing and added the firs nightly successfully.

vinaximus wrote:So it was like this for me
I started a game with EGrvs vehicles, and played only with trains for about 5 years, now I want to remove egrvs from the list and play with Opengfx+ Roadvehicles. I know i can do it without a bug.
Previously, i was using firs 0.5.0, and found a bug, then i removed it (from Openttd 1.5.0) while playing and added the firs nightly successfully.

Oh boy. What you think you know and what in reality happens differ A LOT. You've been very lucky that the game in that particular case didn't crash on you in pieces. Either of those two actions has the potential to cause disaster.

OK, I got the answer
It will not be allowed to remove gfx after version 1.0.5, coz the game could crash
Thnx

vinaximus wrote:So it was like this for me
I started a game with EGrvs vehicles, and played only with trains for about 5 years, now I want to remove egrvs from the list and play with Opengfx+ Roadvehicles. I know i can do it without a bug.
Previously, i was using firs 0.5.0, and found a bug, then i removed it (from Openttd 1.5.0) while playing and added the firs nightly successfully.

I don't know how you decided success, but 'not crashing' is not the same as 'successful'. There may have been very subtle changes that you either notice much later, or not at all.

Eg I have seen vehicles driving next to the road because their internal state got messed up.

Alberth wrote:

vinaximus wrote:So it was like this for me
I started a game with EGrvs vehicles, and played only with trains for about 5 years, now I want to remove egrvs from the list and play with Opengfx+ Roadvehicles. I know i can do it without a bug.
Previously, i was using firs 0.5.0, and found a bug, then i removed it (from Openttd 1.5.0) while playing and added the firs nightly successfully.

I don't know how you decided success, but 'not crashing' is not the same as 'successful'. There may have been very subtle changes that you either notice much later, or not at all.

Eg I have seen vehicles driving next to the road because their internal state got messed up.

Yes, i totally agree. One who add/remove gfx during gameplay might notice some serious or minor consequences later in the game: stuck

Can changing grf parameters cause similar effects?

exactly

blitzkrieg wrote:Can changing grf parameters cause similar effects?

Depends on the grf. There's no easy rule to know what's safe and what isn't unfortunately.

Some will remove, some won't. But removal of GRFs from a live game has never been a supported feature AFAIK. it has been that way certainly ever since I've been playing OTTD (0.6.x).

I personally don´t agree with the decision of removing that feature from nightlies... apparently it seems more a question of getting rid of the report messages rather than with improving the experience. Now I´m stuck with a map I started to create a while ago and will need to remove the grf´s I used before publishing it

Aerond wrote:it seems more a question of getting rid of the report messages rather than with improving the experience.

It's more a question of improving the game experience, unless of course you consider a button "crash this game" a good functionality required for a good game experience... Or is it desirable if you now modify your newgrf on that map, play for two hours and only find out then after another 2 hours that your game is actually screwed and you have to start over with a new game anyway? Neither do I find it a good experience.

I have a further question on this. How should we go about adding/disabling NewGRFs within scenarios? Since they are seen by OTTD as savegames one can no longer edit GRFs in the game, and they are not loaded from the main screen.

The only way around this I have found is to open the stable version, edit the GRFs, save and return to the nightly. Not that this is a huge ordeal, and the only thing that you really miss out on is the better GRF interface of 1.1.

Thanks for any help in advance.

There is a console command that, when submitted, enables the functionality again to change NewGRFs ingame. I don't know the command by heart, but you should be able to find it on these forums or the Wiki. However, you should still be careful, also when only changing grfs in the scenario editor.

It´s not that I want this as a permanent functionality, but I´ve found three problems I need to solve:

1st - I´m creating a scenario with a couple of -grf´s loaded, (one is taking many hours to build) and I need to remove them to make it playable to everybody

2nd - For some reason, my OpenTTD keeps turning the palette back to DOS palette, and I have to turn it back to Windows all the time. Allowing to do this in game saves a few headaches

3rd - Whenever I download a scenario from the "official" online content, I can´t change the .GRF´s -Setting them up on the menu and then starting the game doesn´t work for some reason- to play with my own sets. Thus limiting the use of NewGRF only to randomly generated scenarios.

Aerond wrote: 1st - I´m creating a scenario with a couple of -grf´s loaded, (one is taking many hours to build) and I need to remove them to make it playable to everybody

3rd - Whenever I download a scenario from the "official" online content, I can´t change the .GRF´s -Setting them up on the menu and then starting the game doesn´t work for some reason- to play with my own sets. Thus limiting the use of NewGRF only to randomly generated scenarios.

So you add a newgrf just in order to remove it again?! Seriously, not much one could do worse when creating a scenario. The grfs are part of a scenario. Right from the start till the end. That previous versions allowed careless people to mess with them later didn't help and only lead to things like a couple of totally worthless scenarios as they're totally broken due to actions like you claim need doing to your scenarios.

As scenario developer you should consider the choice of newgrf beforehand and then stick with it. Only use newgrfs which are found on bananas and you're fine.

planetmaker wrote:

Aerond wrote: 1st - I´m creating a scenario with a couple of -grf´s loaded, (one is taking many hours to build) and I need to remove them to make it playable to everybody

3rd - Whenever I download a scenario from the "official" online content, I can´t change the .GRF´s -Setting them up on the menu and then starting the game doesn´t work for some reason- to play with my own sets. Thus limiting the use of NewGRF only to randomly generated scenarios.

So you add a newgrf just in order to remove it again?! Seriously, not much one could do worse when creating a scenario. The grfs are part of a scenario. Right from the start till the end. That previous versions allowed careless people to mess with them later didn't help and only lead to things like a couple of totally worthless scenarios as they're totally broken due to actions like you claim need doing to your scenarios.

As scenario developer you should consider the choice of newgrf beforehand and then stick with it. Only use newgrfs which are found on bananas and you're fine.

Ok, I can agree with number 1; I just did it in a time when you could edit de .grf´s in nightlies, thinking that would last forever... Well, anyway, for some reason the .GRF´s keep loading on DOS palette and that´s giving me a headache... All are bananas grf´s. I wanted to create two versions of it; One with with the newgrf´s, as it´s meant to be -as it´s based in a very specific part of the world with its own trainset, etc-, and another without so everybody could taste it without the need to download the newgrf´s.

And I can´t see a solution for the 3rd problem; since you download the scenario with no newgrf´s on it -which is logical-, then it´s impossible to play with any newgrf in that scenario?? So I download an scenario from, let´s say, Norway, and I can´t load a grf with Norwegian trains since the author decided didn´t load any newgrf on it.

Aerond wrote:for some reason the .GRF´s keep loading on DOS palette and that´s giving me a headache...

That's because your base graphics set uses the DOS palette, which makes the DOS palette the default palette for you. You can override the default palette with the "-i" command line parameter.

What makes you think that rules that hold for scenarios you make do not hold for scenarios made by others?

Rubidium wrote:The grfs are part of a scenario. Right from the start till the end.

That rule holds in both directions. As author you can enforce use of a grf in a scenario, and as player you are stuck with that choice.

If you don't like it, don't play the scenario.