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 Post subject: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:00 pm 
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President
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Location: Switzerland
Hello

In the early years (<1930), imo the towns are too fast too crowded with many habitants, so I made another small GRF, which limits the houses to 1/4 before 1900 and 1/2 before 1930.

Image

Download: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/attachments/d ... houses.grf (Early Houses 2.0beta-r707)
Sources: http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/earlyhouses/

I posted it here to ask, if something like that is helpful? If yes, it would be worth to speak with house set developer to ask for something similar for their sets.

Edit: I am looking for a similar approach to industries.

Greets
Ammler

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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Oh, interesting. Something like this is would definitly helpfull!

How is it meant to be used, in general map creation or as a negativ multiplier in growth, can it implemented in a existing game (doesn´t seem to have an effect)?
I used it (beta2.0r707) with map generation and it seems to work fine in all climates, producing maps with rather small villages, most <100, allthrough there are problems with the editor: random towns doesn´t work at all, manually placed towns have allways a population of 0, even when enlarged. (Ottd r16269).

I started to play some OTTD pre 1920 game recently, starting in 1830 with NARS2 and eGRVS, now I´m at the year 1910. I think it´s a great fun to play with these early vehicles. Insanely fast growing Cities is one of the worst problems. You just can´t handle so many passengers and since there are no special old town sets it doesn´t look really good.
Attachment:
Jamestown & Hetfield RR, 3rd Jul 1869.png [254.91 KiB]
Downloaded 252 times
At the same time I have a lot of tiny villages on the map served by choaches, it would be good if they might grow a little faster and offer enough cargo for a small scale service.
Therefore a general reduction of population and generated passengers (and mail) might offer a nice fix to start with but not a fully satisfying solution.

It´s pretty much the same thing with freight. Allmost all industries produce far more then you can possibly transport before a certain year, which is around 1870/80 on this particular set. The screenshot shows what you need to haul away the monthly production of this farm, it doesn´t take in account that the 1960 train moves four times faster than the first. In eGRVS it would be about 24 horse drawn cars.
Attachment:
Murphy & Co., 1st Jan 1984.png [96.3 KiB]
Downloaded 178 times

ECS industries often have a small production even when they get now raw materials, this is about everything you would need for a small service in early years. The problem with very low but variable production is, that it´s close to nothing and with no production the industrie would close down. So what would be desired for an early industrie would be a small but rather stable output and that some industries should only appear or replacing others from a certain date onwards (planed in FIRS).

Since untill now I haven´t read much about pre 1920 games in the forums I wonder what other players might have expierienced.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Interesting. So you make 3 copies of every building?

FWIW, TaI has town size/population limits.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:32 am 
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@Coxx: This NewGRF works with default houses only. Other sets will still have their populations, they are coded for. Early Houses should also work with a running game, if you don't use other House sets.

@Pikka:
1. deleting all default houses
2. copying the default houses with "fixed" min date to be sure, they won't appear before 1930
3. copying the early default houses (all with min. date 1930) and change min/max to 0/1899 and population to 1/4
4. copying the early default houses (all with min. date 1930) and change min/max to 1900/1929 and population to 1/2

If you have an idea, how to make it better, please tell. :-)

Greets
Ammler

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:32 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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The screenshot just shows what happens without modification. :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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in this picture of Coxx(download/file.php?id=110867) there's a ship,.
From which GRF does it come from?

PLS answer


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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It´s the 2cc ship set, teaser version, sort of.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6930&hilit=2cc+ship+set&start=320
scroll down


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:10 am 
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So i wanted lower populations than default without limiting city growth, after looking at early houses i determined that it did everything i had wanted just to a different timeframe, so i have modified the introduction dates, 1/4 till 1900, 1/2 till 2999 and normal after that.

The main reason i wanted this is because i wanted to lower passanger generation for use with cargodist without patching the source.

I dont think i'd have been able to effect these changes without Ammler's original GRF so all credit and thanx to Ammler. If there are any bugs then thats probably my fault....


Attachments:
File comment: GRF File
earlyhouses2.grf [1.4 KiB]
Downloaded 220 times
File comment: GRF Source
earlyhouses2.nfo [3.56 KiB]
Downloaded 99 times
File comment: 7 Zip file containing grftohtml outputs for original earlyhouses & earlyhouses2
Html Specs.7z [4.24 KiB]
Downloaded 98 times
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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:42 am 
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Obviously the dates are subject to individual taste. Maybe it's an idea to set the transition dates from 1/4 to 1/2 and 1/2 to 1/1 via two grf parameters? That would be a real improvement and make future such modifications less necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:17 am 
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Good Point, i'll look into accepting a parameter but i'm not very good at grf, i doubt i'd have been able to do this much without ammler's prior work.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:59 am 
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Well, this newgrf was meant for play testing and should be somehow implemented in TTRS and other sets (also newindusries), as nobody plays with default houses only. Not really worth to give it more effort...

BTW. with Action6, this would be a easy task...

@id10terror: if you modify a GRF, please change also the author name :-) maybe you can keep me as co-author, but now it looks like your grf is from me, too. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:55 am 
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@id10terror: is mail generation lowered as well? When using Cargodist mail gives the same problems as passengers :)


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:08 am 
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I reviewed it -> viewtopic.php?p=878251#p878251

planetmaker -> I accept a param for modifying volume but have moved away from adjusting dates.

bokkie -> i have addressed missed houses and mail.

ammler -> thanx heaps


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Forgive me bumping this old thread but I could not find another one.
Is a there a subsection on the coopserver dedicated to early houses? I could not find it on the projects page here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects

Anyway,
the latest early houses grf available at the fruitstore is broken with current trunk causing massive glitches as reported by LocArny in another thread.
Tested with clean OpenTTD r20978, both OpenGFX 0.3.1 and original graphics.
Early houses version is 2.0Beta-r707.

If a screenshot is needed I can point you to one or make one but just starting a new game with only this grf will do the trick.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:10 pm 
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as the grf is only made for gameplay test and conflicts with other house sets, so I didn't continue, anyway the source is on our svn repo:
http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/earlyhouses/

Tell us, if you like to continue the set :-)

Greets
Ammler

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:51 pm 
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While I do like the idea of slower town growth, I did not yet have a playtest with this grf ... sorry for that.
The glitches were reported to me while playing with my patchpack and I traced them back to this grf.

Would it be hard to fix the glitches? I might have a looksie at it later on but for the moment I have a few unfinisched projects going already.

As the grf is still available for download maybe just setting the max version of OpenTTD to load it could prevent future complaints about this issue. Of course before that can be done someone has to test since when it was broken.
Also I have not tested if it is broken in TTDPatch also, neither have I tested if the version by id10terror still works.

As for the conflict with other towngrfs, I do believe there are still people playing without many additional grfs that might see a use for it. Maybe disabling the grf when other townsets are detected can solve that issue.

Regards,
ChillCore.

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Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Indeed, patches welcome :-)

(I do not really care at all about any glitches with this set.)

BTW: bananas download was already limited to nightly, your patchpack is also in this category it seems.

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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Quote:
BTW: bananas download was already limited to nightly, your patchpack is also in this category it seems.

Yep, whatever the latest trunk version is before posting a new version, exluding stable releases. :)

I have been reading in some other house set threads that they were/are broken too in recent trunk.
planetmaker mentioned revisions r20796 / r20797 here viewtopic.php?f=67&t=48565
For starters I will test if it was working before these and if the cause is the same.


Edit:
The revisions mentioned above did not break the grf, it gets broken in r20435.
Before that it works without glitches.

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-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:11 am 
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It was indeed a bug in OpenTTD caused by r20435, it's now fixed in r21052. Thanks for the testing ChillCore.


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 Post subject: Re: Early Houses
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Thank you, Yexo, for doing the more difficult part.
Tested and comfirmed fixed. :)

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--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.


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