Transport Tycoon Forums

Having played for a while now using pre-signals and not really enjoying the junctions (I admit they're very mesmerising but...) I've decided to embrace Roest's patchpack fully and get to grips with the YAPP PBS system (forgive any incorrect terminology).

I've created a rudimentary network to test and play with the system but my ignorance surrounding this system obviously leads me to believe I'm doing everything wrong - I hope people will be able to help me grasp the basic concepts as I'm struggling.

I'll attach the savegame (with Roests patchpach - r13019M) and further, the newgrf list and some screenshots.

Kind Regards,

Screenshot and Savegame

Neither YAPP nor the Roest patchpack are supported here. YAPP questions go in the YAPP thread; patchpack questions go in the corresponding patchpack thread.

I thought the general nature of my questions warranted a thread in the General section.

If this foray into the wrong forum is an issue, I'll endeavour to sort out the situation at my earliest convenience.

*Edit - Further, since I can't seem to classify the nature of this thread to your stringent guidelines (I feel that it fits in neither the YAPP patch thread - which tends to be bug reports or major issues, nor the patchpack thread which really has little relevance), I think the best course of action is to delete the thread.

Another helpful morning on the TT-Forums I feel.

Hi Halo14,

Halo14 wrote:Another helpful morning on the TT-Forums I feel.

I'll try to be helpful.

One elementary point of YAPP is: Don't ever put signals after a junction. Leave enough space for a complete train before the first signal.
So each train can cross the junction and has a safe wainting place where it doesn't block others.
Your RoRo-Station has the wrong signals. It should only have signal leading away. Remove the signals marked with a red X. Turn around the signals marked with a yellow O.

cu
Rainer

Halo14 wrote:I thought the general nature of my questions warranted a thread in the General section.

"General OpenTTD" is for general questions about versions of OpenTTD downloaded from www.openttd.org or www.sourceforge.net, and only for those versions.

Versions downloaded from elsewhere are supported elsewhere.

We'll just have to add PBS to trunk to make this thread relevant here then

peter1138 wrote:We'll just have to add PBS to trunk to make this thread relevant here then

That's just as good reason to do it as any

And to the topic starter: here are general rules I apply in my YAPP games
- place signals just before junction. (green)
- never place signals just after junction (red)
- place one way signals, where trains might want to go wrong way (yellow)

These are general rules, that work most of the time, but in some situations there are of course exceptions

This thread is very useful please don't move it. I've been waiting for a good tutorial before i try finding YAPP. The thread for YAPP has become so huge that finding any useful information in it is completely impossible. Maybe if the first post was updated with a tutorial it would be useful, but until then please keep this thread open.

Can somebody explain to me what the different PBS signals do, there seems to be 4 different kinds from various diagrams, I'm at a complete loss.

nezzybaby wrote:Can somebody explain to me what the different PBS signals do, there seems to be 4 different kinds from various diagrams, I'm at a complete loss.

There's actually only 2 different PBS signals. The semaphore and electric version are just different graphics, the functionality is the same. Then there is normal PBS signal (which is all you need btw) and a one way version. If you design your network properly you will never need the one way signal, as the pathfinder adds a high penalty for going through a PBS signal the wrong way.

Does anyone have any good tips for 4 lane PBS layouts? This is my current setup:



One of the problems I encounter is that trains seem to just randomly switch lanes. This can lead to problems, because sometimes one train switching lanes will block a train, who will have to stop, only to switch lanes itself, blocking another train. In a busy line this can go on for a while, and this is why you won't see switches that permit both left-right and right-left lane switching in my screenie.

Now what I would like is for my trains to stay in the right lane whenever possible, and then switch to the left if needed, e.g. when overtaking. Any ideas for this? I tried putting opposing ("wrong way") signals on the left lane as a penalty, but sometimes trains rather stop than take the opposing signal.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions and tips.

Roest wrote:If you design your network properly you will never need the one way signal

That's half the battle ;]

peter1138 wrote:We'll just have to add PBS to trunk to make this thread relevant here then

A worthwhile addition to trunk I feel, much kudos to Michi_cc for his great patch!

In my experience, there is no need for every signal to be a PBS signal, only those at junctions as they serve no purpose at all. Also I think you can have a signal at the exit of a junction so long as it is a standard signal as opposed to a PBS signal, this allows another train to enter the junction and head this way although this can lead to blockages with trains waiting at this signal, up to you but I wouldn't say that you MUSN'T put a signal here...

Ameecher wrote:In my experience, there is no need for every signal to be a PBS signal, only those at junctions as they serve no purpose at all. Also I think you can have a signal at the exit of a junction so long as it is a standard signal as opposed to a PBS signal, this allows another train to enter the junction and head this way although this can lead to blockages with trains waiting at this signal, up to you but I wouldn't say that you MUSN'T put a signal here...

I said, these are my general rules Some specific situations need specific solutions.

I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with putting signals so close together.

My standards are to have stations 7 tiles long, signals every 10 tiles, and at least 7 tiles, ideally 10 again from a junction to to the first signal.

Also for station through lines I won't have signals unless there is congestion so through trains get priority.

If a junction has tracks that aren't long enough to fit a train in, I just won't place a signal there so that the whole junction must be clear for a train.

flailer wrote:I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with putting signals so close together.

On a straight track without junctions the signal (regardless of type) determines the distance trains can be from each other.

Youri219 wrote:

flailer wrote:I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with putting signals so close together.

On a straight track without junctions the signal (regardless of type) determines the distance trains can be from each other.

Yes and no.
If all your trains are 8 tiles long (or of same length in general), then placing signals closer than that is usually pointless. In most cases it will reduce the average speed, as the trains will meet red signals more often.

Hi Mchl,

Mchl wrote:If all your trains are 8 tiles long (or of same length in general), then placing signals closer than that is usually pointless. In most cases it will reduce the average speed, as the trains will meet red signals more often.

The minimum distance (tail to head) between two trains with the same speed is the length of the longest signal block passed. The second train can only enter if the first train has completely left the block.
So on heavy used lines with short blocks any tunnel or bridge will slow down trains if no double track is available. The most efficient layout is a signal every other tile and no tunnels or bridges without double track.

cu
Rainer
(who is still hoping for signals on bridges and in tunnels )

Mchl wrote:If all your trains are 8 tiles long (or of same length in general), then placing signals closer than that is usually pointless. In most cases it will reduce the average speed, as the trains will meet red signals more often.

no, if in you example place signal in 10 tiles then the distance between two trains will be 10 tiles assuming they move with the same speed, if you place them on 5 tiles then this distance will be 5 tiles. Think about two trains just one after another, the second one stops at the signal and the first one will continue... when do you think the second one will start to move? It will start when the first one leaves the signal block, so the longer the block the more distance will be left between the two trains.

The distance will be longer, yes.
But it often happens in my games, that when the signals are too close to each other (and so do trains) then on heavily used tracks,trains have problems reaching their maximum speed, because they constantly run into train ahead of them. Not once I was able to solve that by removing some signals.

A question of balance as usual