Some small changes to the Original Industries

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Should the suggested changes to Original Industries be included in the game?

Yes, it should replace the current system!
4
9%
Yes, there should be a patch option (old / new system). (If that is possible)
10
23%
Yes, there should be a NewGRF.
21
49%
No, i don't like the idea of changing the Original Industries
6
14%
No, i don't like the suggested changes. (Feel free to post suggestions!)
2
5%
 
Total votes: 43

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Timitry
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Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Timitry »

Hello there!

I guess everyone playing this wonderful game once wondered: "What kind of goods is a Factory producing out of Livestock, Grain and Steel?"
Well, i guess we'll never know, but since the original game had it this way, we're having it the same way.

Now, we do have NewIndustries and the chance to develop our own "Industry-Network", however, as far as i know there are only two new sets out there, George's ECS-Vectors and PikkaBirds' Basic Industries. I think both have done an amazing job, however, i do not like to play with neither of them - One of the main reasons is that you can only deliver a certain amount of raw materials to the Industries, or you have to deliver as much coal as iron ore to make it work properly. Also, the disappearing of Primary Industries due to non-endless resources bothers me.

While George created an almost completely new set, PikkaBird rather changed and extended the original industries, in my opinion in a very good way. I always wondered whether we could not make some small changes to the original industries to make them a) more realistic (see factory, and i said MORE realistic, not perfectly realistic ;-) ) and b) a bit more complex. I think it would make the game even better.

My hope would, of course, be that those changes would "go into trunk", however, i think that some players might protest and it would cause savegame incompability. Second, more realistic option would be to design a NewGRF to play with. I do state here already that i neither have time nor knowledge to do any of that, i'm hoping that someone might be interested in the idea - if not, bad luck for me.

My "wishlist" for the basic changes would include (quite similar to PBI, credits to PikkaBird):

-Change the Factory not to accept Grain and Livestock anymore, but only Steel and maybe other, new products.
-The Grain and Livestock should be delivered to a Food Processing Plant, which generates either Goods or Food.
-Maybe the Steelmill should accept Iron Ore AND Coal, however, i never really liked the idea that you can deliver coal to both the Steelmill and the Powerplant, as the latter would probably be almost completely unused.

Those would be the 2/3 basic changes i'd like to see, i would not add that much more to prevent the system from getting "too complex", especially for new players. However, additional ideas for changes would be adding more Secondary Industries who accept raw materials and produce goods, which may be transported to other industries, like we have with the steelmill. This could be e.g. the Refinery.
I would not add industries such as the Brewery, as you can also deliver Grain to the Food Processing Plant, with both Industries producing goods i would think that the Brewery would be rather unused, which should not happen.

What do you think of the Idea in general? I admit the ideas are not new (again, credits to PBI...), just the constellation.
So the differences to PBI would be:
-Less changes to the Original Industries
-Industries accept as many cargo as you deliver, and you do not have to deliver e.g. as many coal as iron ore (of course this is less realistic, but easier to play with)
-Primary Industries do not close because of vanishing resources (one could argue about this point - does it make the game more interesting or is it rather annoying?)

What do you think?
Comments / Critic / Suggestions / Changes / Discussion is welcomed & aprreciated.

Tim
Last edited by Timitry on 12 Apr 2008 10:40, edited 1 time in total.
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athanasios
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by athanasios »

Sound setting for new players. I don't see any reason why this should be included as an option in game.
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Timitry »

Thank you :-)
How about some more opinions? 101 Views and only 1 Answer... :-/
[e] I added a poll, maybe i get some more opinions like that ;-)
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Rubidium »

Replacing the current system means that newindustries NewGRFs will not work as they should. The authors of those patches will then blame the changed settings in OpenTTD for that as their NewGRF conforms to the standard.

So *if* you want those 'small' changes to the original industries, you'll have to write a newindustries NewGRF yourself, cause changing OTTD itself has way more disadvantages that advantages.
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Timitry »

(To bring this idea up again)

Hm well, that's sad, but still i think a NewGRF would be cool... Anyone feel like doing it? ;-)
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by belugas »

Timitry wrote:(To bring this idea up again)

Hm well, that's sad, but still i think a NewGRF would be cool... Anyone feel like doing it? ;-)
Maybe you could try to see how far you can go with your idea?
GRFs are not THAT HARD to do, and the more people know how to write them, the better the community will be.
And please, no "I suck at programming", "I'm too lazy" excuses or else...
If you are not ready to work a bit for your ideas, it means they don't count much for you.
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Timitry
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Timitry »

Hehe, if noone wants to do it i may try it, but only after having written my last abitur-exam... ;-) Which is next Wednesday...
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Daz »

I would like to see those changes made, it would make the game better. I also think that the industries have limits to their production so upgrades are needed to make them produce more. this takes up more room making it harder for a player to buy all of the land around the industry to stop others.
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Timitry »

About Production Limits:
Generally i don't like the idea, as many players want to have one big factory dropoff, and if you have a big map, it won't accept enough. However, if you make the factory "upgradable", that would work...
But i guess that's another topic, as i would need coding i guess, so i really won't be able to do it :D
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by JacobD88 »

Timitry wrote: -Maybe the Steelmill should accept Iron Ore AND Coal, however, i never really liked the idea that you can deliver coal to both the Steelmill and the Powerplant, as the latter would probably be almost completely unused.
Tim
Actually the power plant i still find useful for one huge reason... Stockpiling...

If you deliver coal to Steel Mill A, and it has a back-log of coal to process in it's stockpile, then any excess coal that gets left at the serving station, with an efficient network, i then take off to Power Plant A, any excess Iron Ore is usually shipped to Steel Mill B... Who has it's excess coal shipped to Power Plant B and excess Iron Ore shipped to Steel Mill C... And so on... So really having the steel mill accepting both and stockpiling resources to a limit enhances the game, not make the power plant defunct...

Really i'd like to see more secondary/tertiary industries act the same way... You don't just have to ensure that an industry gets all it needs, you also have to make sure than any great level of supply efficiency doesn't mean you end up wasting resources in stockpile overloads... :D

EDIT, sorry for digging up an old thread... just realised... :roll:
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by mak_elblotto »

JacobD88 wrote:
Timitry wrote: -Maybe the Steelmill should accept Iron Ore AND Coal, however, i never really liked the idea that you can deliver coal to both the Steelmill and the Powerplant, as the latter would probably be almost completely unused.
Tim
Sorry for bumping an old thread (again), but there's no reason this couldn't work if the industries paid different amounts for the same cargo, ie; if the Powerplant were to pay (say) 3 times the amount that the Steelmill did for Coal, it could still make financial sense to (possibly) deliver Coal to the Powerplant rather than the Steelmill.

Although if the Steelmill requires Coal to produce Goods, you would still want to deliver enough Coal there so you then have the opportunity to deliver the Goods.

If it seems as though there isn't enough incentive to deliver cargos to varied industries (or enough complexity for us sadistic types) make town growth somewhat reliant on being 'supplied' enough power by the local Powerplant (a Powerplant can be considered to be 'supplying' all the nearest towns to that specific Powerplant).

Mind you, all this is just dreaming at this point. I haven't even looked at the code to see how difficult it could possibly be to even try to implement any of this stuff, and I'm extremely new to programming.
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by PikkaBird »

Timitry wrote: -Maybe the Steelmill should accept Iron Ore AND Coal, however, i never really liked the idea that you can deliver coal to both the Steelmill and the Powerplant, as the latter would probably be almost completely unused.
Tim
This is precisely what stockpiling is for. ;) It prevents ye-olde-ottd-gameplay-style where players drop the produce of the entire map into one factory.

And fwiw, the brewery in PBI produces much more goods per ton of grain than the food plant does. :) In any case, the whole food chain is going to be overhauled in PBI's successor. ;)
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Badger »

PikkaBird wrote: In any case, the whole food chain is going to be overhauled in PBI's successor. ;)
*Ears prick up*

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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by Swansea Stu »

Rather than have the power station pay more for coal. Maybe if you do not supply a power station then any electric/monorail/maglev trains would only be able to run at a fraction of their top speed. Whilst steam/diesel could just keep on chugging.
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Re: Some small changes to the Original Industries

Post by SirkoZ »

I chose the NewGRF route in the poll as I too want to implement no closure and will have to do via newGRF - the only sure way as rubidium and countless times before belugas said that won't break the NewGRF framework. :)
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