Transport Tycoon Forums

Hey

Just to get it right, i dont know anything about making newgrf or the likes sadly i was just wondering, as i am one of many who miss playing Toyland, but find it so very hard for youre eyes, would it be possible? to make it playable again, tweak the colors, ground etc?..

//RMJ

well... take the brickland graphics when they're finished, convert them to 8bpp, put them in a grf and you have toyland that doesn't hurt the eyes...
or only the groud tiles from brickland, i think that's the worst part of toyland

what about trees Gonozal?

Yeah i might just be the ground ? i was thinking of that many colors aswell, if it was possible to still keep A LOT of colors since it is toyland, but maybe find a better balance, it would be nice to have both Toyland and Brickland as to seperate

Would it be possible to like take the grass from temperate climate and use in Toyland ? just to test it out ? xD

I personally like Toyland.

But only because I finally managed to find the Mars GRF. Very pretty, and much kinder on the eyes then the old Toyland graphics were(Which I had won my first game on when I started playing TTD at...10/11ish, I think. Something like that. I know it's around 3/4ish years ago... )

Anyway. Yeah, the Mars GRF replaces all the graphics, and gives more sensible trains and such. If there were other GRFs like this, I'd definitely be looking out for them. =)

Although I'm definitely lurking in the brickland place....Looks awesome, so far. =D

yeah im really looking forward to Brickland also would just be so nice if possible to revive Toyland and keep it as close to the original as possible like all the fun trains and trasnport stuff, just needs to be more kind on the eye xD

edit:

On a sidenote, i just for fun tried setting the resolution down to 640x480 that really helps A LOT, with youre eyes. guess its the resolution and the many colors that many it so bad..

RMJ wrote:Would it be possible to like take the grass from temperate climate and use in Toyland ? just to test it out ? xD

Already done. But I don't remember where it is. Google doesn't help either, but my HD does. Digging... So here is the modified grf. Please backup your original file as this is a modified original and not a new grf. (And ignore warning when starting game.)

-

Consider the above as temporary solution. There is work in progress to change all climates terrain. Other climates are already done and now remains toyland. It won't take long. You may join the project of replacing 8bpp graphics.

A preview of the new toyland terrain I am making for the 8bbp graphics replacement project...

looks very nice both the total green and the new terrain for Toyland what really only needs to be done is give the tree's some help then toyland will be playable again =)

good job..

From what I remember, Toyland's main problem was the lack of variety of locomotives, and the ones that it did have had low HP. This is something that can be easily fixed with a new GRF. I did like the surrealness of it but it just wasn't as interesting to play as the other climates. Also, like the temperate, Toyland lacks an equivalent of a second type of terrain (eg. Snow or Desert) which takes the different-terrain-types dimension away. IMO It would be a pity for Toyland to miss out on having 32bpp graphics.

Anyway, I've been thinking about some new industries and new cargoes for the toyland climate (see here for the existing Toyland cargo-flow diagram). The new industries and cargoes are coloured.

• Lego factory: Plastic is transported to the Lego factory to produce Lego
• Playgroup: Lego is transported to the Playgroup who use it for construction. Similar to the construction industry in George's ECS vectors.
• Battery farms: Hyperactive kids are used to generate electricity to charge the batteries. The hyperactive kids are obtained from the towns. This creates an ECS-like circular industry chain.
• Data mine: Produces two cargoes - ones and zeroes. These are both shipped to Software Houses. Additionally, zeroes can be shipped to Playgrounds to be used as hula-hoops, and ones can be shipped to the Candyfloss factory to be used as the stick which the candyfloss is wrapped round.
• Software Houses: Recieves ones and zeroes. Produces computer games which are shipped to Toy Shops. Software Houses can also recieve Sweets/candy and Fizzy Drinks to make the developpers more productive (although if the software house is in a town, this might conflict with the town's acceptance of these cargoes).
• Playgrounds: These are types of town buildings (similar to hotels and petrol stations in TTRS). They accept Playground equipment (not yet sure how to manufacture Playground equipment), and also accept zeroes from the Data mine which can be used as hula-hoops.
• Theme Parks: These can take Theme Park visitors (Similar to ECS's Tourists).
• Piggy banks: The toyland analogue to regular banks in the other climates. They could be like Temperate where Pocket money is shipped from Piggy bank to Piggy bank. Or alternatively...
• Parents: This looks like a giant sculpture of a mum and dad. They provide pocket money that is shipped to Piggy banks. They are the equivalent of the Arctic climate's Gold-mine and Tropic's Diamond-mine.

If dividing the industries into multiple vectors, they can be divided into "Basic" (towns, banks), "Junk food" and "Toys". In fact, the "Toys" vector could even be divided into two - "Boy's toys" and "Girl's toys".

Here are some possible toyland-themed disasters:

• The Sweet factory could be blown up by overly-concerned health-experts worrying about too much junkfood (similar to the exploding oil-refinery).
• Playgroup: A kid wets their pants (a big "Eeewww!" sound is heard when the news-item pops up). The playgroup could become less productive until the mess is cleaned up (if it produces anything). Alternatively, the industry could emit a trail of urine that destroys everything in it's path (similar to coal-mine subsidance).
• Paedophile: Similar to the UFOs in the Arctic climate. They find a vehicle and destroy it.

Recessions could be represented by school-time. When a 'recession' occurs, you hear a school bell, and a news-item occurs to say "Start of school term - kids have less time to buy toys and sweets". The 'recession' will be ended with a school bell and a message thay says "End of school term - kids expected to splurge on toys and sweets"

That's funny!

That's rich, electricmonk. These industries are well thought up. I love how the ones and zeros can be used for both data and hoops and candyfloss. Very surreal. And the statues of the parents generating allowance are brilliant. Sounds about what the world looks like from the view of a kid.

Zephyris wrote: A preview of the new toyland terrain I am making for the 8bbp graphics replacement project...

This feels less harsh on my eyes, but I can't help thinking it might resemble the temperate terrain a bit too much. Perhaps 'snow' could be added to Toyland that makes the landscape look like a winter-wonderland and functions similarly to snow in the arctic climate.

When thinking about the reduced horsepower of Toyland locomotives, bear in mind that toy locomotives are just toys. Toy-trains have many orders of magnitude less horsepower than a real train. Perhaps Chris Sawyer was trying to simulate this by reducing the HP. But if the weight of the toyland cargoes is not reduced to compensate, either the trains must be made shorter or more use of multiheaded trains should be made. In fact, the reduced train length could mean that the networks don't take up as much room (shorter stations, smaller distance between signals (but then, long sections of tunnel and bridge would have more of an impact)). The shorter networks will also compensate for lower maximum-speeds. This could make playing a Toyland game a different experience from the other climates. To compensate, road-vehicles (and even planes) could have smaller cargo-capacity (and perhaps even reduced HP/speed as well).

But really, there needs to be a greater variety of locomotives. Locomotives could me made by manufacturers such as "Fisher Price". They could be modeled after real-life Fisher-Price toys. Ideas for non-standard GRF sets include "Thomas the Tank-Engine and chums". However, model railway companies that produce realistic locos should not be done as they look too much like real-world locomotives.

To save us from having to scale the units of distance and power down to toy-sized dimensions, instead of "tonnes", we could use "oodles". Not sure what "Horsepower" could be renamed to ("My-Little-Pony-power" perhaps? But that just sounds too silly.). Also, we'd need to name the currency. Ideas include "Monopoly money" and "Chocolate coins". Likewise, "steam", "deisel" and "electric" could be renamed. The steam locomotives are already called "Choo Choo trains". Not sure what to call the others. Perhaps the Electric trains could be called "Model Railways" (although model-railway tracks and regular tracks will be compatible like normal rails and elrails). Speaking of elrails - instead of an overhead wire, they could use an electric third rail between the two rails (this looks more toy-like).

The passengers could be turned into Dolls or Toy soldiers. The passenger-coaches could be open-top so you can see how full each carriage is. The 'passengers' will be scaled relative to the coaches in such a way that the train looks like one of those miniature trains you get in parks. See http://www.sarno.freeserve.co.uk/leylan ... mayor2.jpg for an example of what I had in mind.

The types of town buildings could change as the date increases. After a certain date, plastic town buildings will be built instead of wooden town buildings.

There could be separate GRF sets for giving town-buildings boy's toys theme (eg. something that looks like it's been built with a construction kit) and a girl's toys theme (eg. Dolls houses).

An idea for a non-standard "Total Toyland Graphics Replacement GRF" could look like an animated kid's drawing - a bit like the video to Sting's "Love is the Seventh Wave".

As for the Toyland New Industries and cargoes, I've had some more thoughts.

• Lego: This could be renamed Plastc bricks to avoid trademark infringements. Lego comes from the Danish phrase leg godt, which means "play well" (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego ), so perhaps these plastic bricks could be named after a similar Danish phrase or the same phrase in a differentt language.
• Hyperactive kids: This appears to be something seen from an adult's point of view rather than a child's point of view. Not sure how children see 'Hyperactive' kids.
• Other cargo ideas I've had include Crayons, Bright colours and Comics. Not sure what to do with them.
• Toys could be divided between Boy's toys and Girls's toys. The only difference from the cargo-chain point of view is that they are manufactured in two different types of factory. Graphically, the only difference would be that the Boy's toys facroty would have a blue roof and the Girl's toys facroty would have a pink roof. AFAIK, from the industry-chain/cargo point of view, the difference between the two may only become apparent at the last production-industry/cargo in the chain. The two types of factories could accept different types of cargoes (for example, the Girl's toys facroty could accept pleasant scents). The toys are just shipped to toyshops regardless of gender. It's not worth bothering with things like having 'right-on' parents trying to encourage their kids to break the bounds of their gender-based toys.

The "Applause" sound could be replaced by a chorus of kids going "Yaaaay!", and the "Oooh" sound by a chorus of kids going "Oooh".

Some more ideas for Toyland-themed disasters include:

• In the previous post, I mentioned a disaster involving a trail of urine that destroys everything in it's path. Instead of "a trail of urine", the phrase "The area is soiled" could be used. Note that coal-mine subsistance also involves some sort of 'soil', so we can just use the bare-land graphics for the toyland climate.
• Older Brother: Comes along and wrecks things.
• Theme park: Someone pukes (also gives an "Eeewww!" sound).
• Software house: Bad mangment or low morale: The production of computer games is drastically reduced.
• If trains crash, the 'passengers' are thrown about all over the place like rag-dolls. However, because it's a toy, train-wrecks are cleared quicker than they are in the other climates.

Anyone got anymore ideas for Toyland-themed disasters.

Also, does anyone know if the Chris Sawyer posse had any rejected ideas for TTDLX Toyland industries/cargoes/vehicles etc. that didn't make it?

TagDaze wrote: Very surreal

Speaking of surreal: there should be more themed 'climates' based on abstract cargoes and industries. One idea I had ages ago was to build a transport network based on a university campus. Students would be shipped from Halls of Residence to Academic Departments which produce Ideas (represented by lightbulbs). Beer would be shipped to the halls of residence in great quantities. Apart from that, haven'd developped the idea much.

AE.

I like your ideas electric monk!

I'd simply call the passengers 'kids' or 'children'. seeing as it's their toys and pocket money we're transporting.

I really like the ones and zeros idea, but it's not very consistent with seeing the world from a kids' viewpoint. Kids have no idea ones and zeros are involved in computer games.

Mail could be replaced with 'notes', as in the notes kids pass around during class.

horsepower is a measure of how strong an engine is, so I'd say something that boys would say. 'powerlevel' or 'coolness' maybe

'tonnes' could also be replaced with 'piles'

boats are replaced with pirate ships!

This is fun! My lady wife laughed herself silly at the cargo list. The data mine - software house - game store chain is my favorite- a snippet of Stan Rogers' "White Collar Holler" should be used as this industry sound:

http://www.mystrands.com/track/566821

"And it's Ho, boys, can't you code it? (Huuh!) Program it right! Nothin' ever happens in this life of mine, I'm haulin' out the data on the Xerox line."

(I can sing that if there are copyright concerns.)

As we joke at work when being warned about unauthorized computer use, "There's only so many zeroes and ones, and when they're gone, they're gone."

IMHO kids are by definition hyperactive, so delivering them to the battery plant (with candy and soda to fuel them) works. All passengers should be renamed "kids".

I also like the Parents- pocket money - piggybank industry chain. (Dad feels like a wallet with legs, especially after Christmas.)

Perhaps three different track types- the "wooden" type (carved wooden trains and slow speeds/low HP) then Lionel type 3 rail, (classic toy trains) then the real world trains arrive with the eq of "G" scale model railroad track.

Perhaps instead of hyperactive kids, you could deliver hamsters to a power generator, clearly in the form of a large wheel...

ostlandr wrote: the "wooden" type (carved wooden trains and slow speeds/low HP)

Something like this?

I really like those! Its a brilliant style...

Korenn wrote: I really like the ones and zeros idea, but it's not very consistent with seeing the world from a kids' viewpoint. Kids have no idea ones and zeros are involved in computer games.

I agree. That's why I'm thinking of moving the data-mine, ones and zeroes into a separate vector and GRF file (see below).

Korenn wrote: Mail could be replaced with 'notes', as in the notes kids pass around during class.

Like that idea

Korenn wrote: horsepower is a measure of how strong an engine is, so I'd say something that boys would say. 'powerlevel' or 'coolness' maybe

Or even "Ooomph!"

Korenn wrote: boats are replaced with pirate ships!

There are other types of toy-boats apart from pirate ships. Pehaps a disaster in the regular climates could be a pirate ship appearing and sinking a boat.

ostlandr wrote: IMHO kids are by definition hyperactive, so delivering them to the battery plant (with candy and soda to fuel them) works. All passengers should be renamed "kids".

I also like the idea. It takes away the "kids/hyperactive-kids" distinction. Having a 'stockpile' of kids will make the battery farm more productive. Having a stockpile of sweets and fizzy drinks will make the battery farm even more productive as the kids will be more energized. However, sweets or fizzy drinks without any kids will have no effect on battery-farm productivity. In fact, the idea of one auxiliary cargo not affecting output unless another auxiliary cargo is present isn't even in George's ECS vectors. But IMO, there should be more circular cargo-chains in the Toyland NewIndustries.

ostlandr wrote: Perhaps three different track types- the "wooden" type (carved wooden trains and slow speeds/low HP) then Lionel type 3 rail, (classic toy trains) then the real world trains arrive with the eq of "G" scale model railroad track.

Like that idea, but for one of the track-types, we'd need a distinction between electified and non-electrified railways. AFAICR, Lego trains came in electric and non-electric varieties - not sure about other types of toys.

Generally, toy trains have fewer wagons than real-life trains, and this also compensates for lower HP, so toyland trains should generally have a lower HP/wagon-wight ratio than the other climates.

AndersI wrote: Something like this?

The earliest locomotives could be made out of wood like the ones you've shown. Later models could be made of plastic. Of course with this being toyland, more trains would have to look like steam-locomotives.

AlexW wrote: Perhaps instead of hyperactive kids, you could deliver hamsters to a power generator, clearly in the form of a large wheel...

That's a possible idea. There could be an animals vector, where one of the industries is a petting-zoo. Not sure whether to use the kids (with sweets) or the animals to power the battery farm, or both.


Someone once mentioned the idea of having pink candyfloss snow. I personally prefer white snow turning the land above the snowline into a Winter Wonderland, while leaving candyfloss as a cargo. There could be a 'Santa Clause' industry that's only found above the snowline. This produces toys which are shipped to toyshops. It's a seasonal industry like the fruit-plantations of George's ECS Agricultural vector that only produces toys in winter. It could be an 'easter-egg' industry in that it does not appear on any of the mini-map views - the player must find it themselves. It's located in an above-snowline area that's far away from any towns or other industries, and hidden by trees. It will not be mentioned in any documentation.

I think someone mentioned in another thred that someone tried to make a new trainset for Toyland that was abandoned. It would be nice if there was a link to it in case anyone wanted to revive it (alas, I can't draw to save my life). On having searched grfcrawler, I did not find any Toyland-specific GRFs. However, I did find the Thomas the Tank Engine Set. Haven't tried it, but it would be great if it worked in Toyland.

Here are some more thoughts and ideas about new Toyland industries:

So far, my most popular idea has been the Data-mine with it's ones and zeroes. However, as others have pointed out, this is not how kids view the world and would therefore break the toyland theme, but it would be a great pity not to have these industries and cargoes (I can just immagine... "Ones service from Cheekywig Mines to Swivelweed Woods will pay triple rates for the next year!"). What I propose is that the Data-Mine, ones and zeroes are siphoned off into a separate 'Toyland-Surrealism' vector. Instead, there will be a Character ranch industry that produces video game characters (if the surrealism vector is not present, video game characters are sufficient for the software house to operate). This is similar to ECS's Animal Farm. The Character ranch could also grow comic-book characters (used to produce comics) and cartoon characters (for cartoons). Comics and cartoons and videogames would also require the cargo Bright colours which are shipped from a Rainbow. Not sure what to ship to the Character ranch - batteries perhaps?

Also, if it is possible, the existing MIDI files of the TTDLX music could have the tracks' instrument-IDs modified so the music is played using 'toy' instruments such as Xylophones. If the bass-tracks and some polyphony are silenced and the precussion sounds are exaggerated, the music would then sound like it's being played on kids' instruments.

AE.

electricmonk wrote: The earliest locomotives could be made out of wood like the ones you've shown. Later models could be made of plastic. Of course with this being toyland, more trains would have to look like steam-locomotives.

The Swedish toy maker BRIO has lots of trains, both steamers and electrics. Quite a collection of wagons too:
http://www.brio.se/BRIO_NET/Sverige/?b=2
(and track, bridges and buildings too)