Transport Tycoon Forums

See http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=628571#p628571 for the first release and a call for artists!

Original post below:
Industry Set: One Cargo Climate Set

Hello everyone. I am introducing my own GRF set: The One Climate Cargo Set (OCCS).

This set merges the three climates into a single industry, and adding a few along the way. It is currently a simple implementation of the industries - no dynamic output amounts yet. Almost all chains of industries is three deep: raw -> Refining -> Packaging -> Towns & Bank.
The main grf, “occsdefs” is the definitions of the industries and it's related cargoes. The supporting grfs are “occsvech” that redefines the default vehicles to support the new cargoes and (soon) “occshous” that will redefine the default houses to support the extra production / acceptance of some cargoes. Currently, "occsvech" only define the train / monorail / maglev wagons. It will be extended to support all default vehicles later.

All industries also require, but not currently use, workers which will be generated by the “occshous” grf. Goods and Food will be deliverable to towns as well via the “occshous” grf. Valuables are delivered to the bank industry.

Below is the current development version. Currently, the farms, mines, grainery, perishables processing plant and cannery are not codded. All industries convert cargo to double the input (this will definitely change)

Future plans include:

• Once available: farms and mines will have variable output types. Until available, they will be "farm a", "farm b", etc.
• Dynamic cargo processing (similar to ECS)
• A dependents on workers to create cargo
• Possibly more...

Please provide comments / suggestions!

An interesting concept.
I will be watching this thread to see how it develops.
Support by some of the train sets with their specialized wagons might be a challenge.
I suggest that coal still be available to power plants as well as your refinery implementation.

I will also follow this thread. It is good to add all the industries. Some things do not make sense. E.G. the perishables industry. Fruit in general is either canned in a cannery dried etc. or made juice and transported condensed or frozen to soft drink factories.
Or directly ends, after packaging (that is supposed to take place in the plantation) to the super market.

gmyx wrote:Please provide comments / suggestions!

Sorry, but looks a bit strange, IMHO
Meat should be perishables?
Cannery should accept meat?
Steel should be accepted not only by Cannery?
Refined products should not be produced from coal?
Coal should be used by power plants/metal works?
Factory should accept steel?

In general I’d suggest to
1) make many industries produce 2 cargos
2) have 2 industries that accept 1 cargo
3) make 1 integrated chain, not 4 completely independent chains

And if you want complete support by GRF sets, please provide cargo classes and labels for all cargos (and add them in Wiki).

Wile E. Coyote wrote:And if you want complete support by GRF sets, please provide cargo classes and labels for all cargoes (and add them in Wiki).

I suppose he can use most ECS labels. He has only few new cargoes. That would make it easier for vehicles set to support new set. If only ECS labels are used, you can transport new cargoes with LV4 or Serbian rail set already.

My goal is to try to keep it simple, but there is certainly room to expand / modify what I am codding.

George wrote: Meat should be perishables?
Cannery should accept meat?

In essence that would render meat or perishables a duplicate. Then the food processing plant could accept either / or along with some other cargo.

George wrote: Steel should be accepted not only by Cannery?
Factory should accept steel?

Those do make sense since a factory and possibly others do use steel.

George wrote: Refined products should not be produced from coal?
Coal should be used by power plants/metal works?

Well, I always thought the TTD power plants were silly in that they were dead ends. Of course, coal does not really fit where I put it and I am not very comfortable with it's current placement.

George wrote: In general I’d suggest to
1) make many industries produce 2 cargos
2) have 2 industries that accept 1 cargo
chains

Many of the "refining" industries could produce more than one output that are then fed into the packaging industries / towns.

George wrote: 3) make 1 integrated chain, not 4 completely independent

I was aiming for that effect - distinct chains. I don't mind some interdependence, but not too much.

athanasios wrote:Some things do not make sense. E.G. the perishables industry. Fruit in general is either canned in a cannery dried etc. or made juice and transported condensed or frozen to soft drink factories. Or directly ends, after packaging (that is supposed to take place in the plantation) to the super market.

So, if I read this correctly, fruit should be delivered directly to the cannery? I think I will change that section since it doesn't make much sence with fruits / maize as inputs.

Wile E. Coyote wrote:And if you want complete support by GRF sets, please provide cargo classes and labels for all cargos (and add them in Wiki).

Once I finalize what cargoes will exist I will certainly properly disclose them. At this point, it would probably be useless if the labels change - I will try to reuse as many ECS cargo labels as make sense.

This has given me something to think about - there will definitely be some changes / redesign of the industry chart. Thank you for the great feedback.

Here is my first revision as a result of your feedback.

Highlights:

• Fruits are delivered directly to the food processing plant to be converted into food.
• Coal is delivered to metal works instead of refinery
• Perishables processing plant is removed
• Maize is delivered to the grainery, which is accept two of grain, maize or wheat
• The food processing plant will accept two of: meat, refined grains or fruits
• Wood can now be delivered to sawmill as well as paper mill
• Rubber now goes to the refinery instead of the factory
• The sawmill outputs "logs" (not sure what to call it yet)
• Factory now accepts steel plus one of: "logs", Refined products

* industries with a star in their name signify that they either they have variable outputs OR variable inputs.

Again, any feedback is welcome!

Edit: Corrected image.

gmyx wrote:Again, any feedback is welcome!

Thoughts:
1) it looks strange to get perishables from grainery together with refined grain. I'd suggest to unite cannery and food processing plant and remove perishables in your schema.
2) are "logs" intended to be "wood products"? If the factory accepts logs to produce furniture for example, than wood products is a more correct term. Logs should be accepted by construction industry.

gmyx wrote:[*]The sawmill outputs "logs" (not sure what to call it yet)

In real life Forests output logs that are shipped to sawmills.

george wrote:2) are "logs" intended to be "wood products"? If the factory accepts logs to produce furniture for example, than wood products is a more correct term. Logs should be accepted by construction industry.

In real life the more correct term is "Lumber".
In real life:
Sawmills accept logs shipped to them from forests.
The sawmills are where the logs are sawed into lumber. By-products of sawing logs into lumber are sawdust and woodchips.
Lumber is used to make products out of wood. (Houses, furniture, skateboards, etc.)
Woodchips are used to make paper. Woodchips can also be used to make pressboard, which is then used in the same way as lumber is used.
Sawdust is usually considered a waste product and is dumped somewhere close to the sawmill.

wallyweb wrote:Sawdust is usually considered a waste product and is dumped somewhere close to the sawmill.

In Canada they do so? In here Estonia they use all of it and there isn't no waste left!

ISA wrote: In Canada they do so? In here Estonia they use all of it and there isn't no waste left!

wallyweb wrote:Sawdust is usually ...

The key word here is "Usually" which means "not always". The sawdust is now often being used as fuel for producing power, if a bio-mass power plant is available to use it.

wallyweb wrote:

ISA wrote: In Canada they do so? In here Estonia they use all of it and there isn't no waste left!

wallyweb wrote:Sawdust is usually ...

The key word here is "Usually" which means "not always". The sawdust is now often being used as fuel for producing power, if a bio-mass power plant is available to use it.

ok ... Here they nor burn it! But use for more other things!

George wrote:

gmyx wrote:Again, any feedback is welcome!

Thoughts:
1) it looks strange to get perishables from grainery together with refined grain. I'd suggest to unite cannery and food processing plant and remove perishables in your schema.
2) are "logs" intended to be "wood products"? If the factory accepts logs to produce furniture for example, than wood products is a more correct term. Logs should be accepted by construction industry.

1) Well, I wanted more than one industry to output food -> hence cannery... but it could still be tweaked.
2) That is exactly what I was thinking of! "Logs" was a placeholder until I could find the correct term, therefore the correct output type will be "wood products".

wallyweb wrote: Sawdust is usually considered a waste product and is dumped somewhere close to the sawmill.

Last I heard, doing that will get you shut down. It happened to a sawmill near Ottawa earlier this year.

/Offtopic

Thanks again for the feedback, getting close to something final.

gmyx wrote:

wallyweb wrote:Sawdust is usually considered a waste product and is dumped somewhere close to the sawmill.

Last I heard, doing that will get you shut down. It happened to a sawmill near Ottawa earlier this year.

You are right about that. As urban areas grow there is less tolerance as to how waste materials should be disposed, especially if waterways are at risk.
As much as I enjoy George's wood chain, I find some of his terminology is confusing.I live in New Brunswick, a province where the forest industry is extremely important, so let me describe the forestry chain as it applies here. I believe that it will be similar anywhere in the world.
1. Forest - It all starts here.Trees are harvested and cut into logs. Sawdust is a by-product of cutting the trees into logs. The sawdust is left where it falls. Eventually it will decompose and return to the soil, providing nutrients for new trees to grow. The logs, depending on the type of tree (hardwood or softwood) are transported to sawmills or to pulp mills.
2.A. Sawmills - Hardwood logs are cut into lumber. The lumber can be shipped to builders for house construction or it can be shipped to another industry, such as a furniture manufacturer. By-products are wood chips and sawdust. Wood chips are shipped to pulp mills or to pressed wood manufacturers. Sawdust, because it is like a powder, is more difficult to deal with. It can be used to make particle board, but often it is not worth the cost of transportation to use it. Particle board is a very cheap material that is not very strong. An example of a particle board product is the very cheap furnture one sees at discount stores.
2.B - Pulp mills - Softwood logs are converted to pulp. The pulp is shipped to paper mills. By-products depend upon the pulp process that is used.
3. Paper Mills - Use pulp to make paper.
4. Construction - Uses lumber to build houses etc.
5. Other industries - Use lumber to make other products such as furniture.

Product Chain Summary:
Logs --> Lumber --> Construction
Logs --> Lumber --> Goods
Logs --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods
Logs --> Woodchips --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods

wallyweb wrote: As much as I enjoy George's wood chain, I find some of his terminology is confusing.I live in New Brunswick, a province where the forest industry is extremely important, so let me describe the forestry chain as it applies here. I believe that it will be similar anywhere in the world.
[...]
Product Chain Summary:
Logs --> Lumber --> Construction
Logs --> Lumber --> Goods
Logs --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods
Logs --> Woodchips --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods

That is a very good description and it should be very simple to fit most, if not all, of it in into my models.

On a side note, you're not that far from me - I live very near to Ottawa! Unfortunately, there is not much for a lumber industry (probably too close to government departments - not enough travel for them!)

wallyweb wrote:Product Chain Summary:
Logs --> Lumber --> Construction
Logs --> Lumber --> Goods
Logs --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods
Logs --> Woodchips --> Pulp --> Paper --> Goods

Then:
Logs are ECS wood. The name can be changed (i.e. "Wood logs")
Paper is ECS Paper
Goods are ECS goods
Woodchips and Pulp are ECS Wood products.
Looks like ECS wood vector is very close to "Product Chain Summary"

George wrote:Logs are ECS wood. The name can be changed (i.e. "Wood logs")

All logs are wood so simply "logs" would work ... erm ... well maybe except for error logs
I am sorry George. I can never resist the opportunity for a bad joke.

George wrote:Woodchips and Pulp are ECS Wood products.

True ... but everything made from trees is a wood product, even the logs. Actually "wood product" usually refers to the finished product such as paper or furniture

George wrote:Looks like ECS wood vector is very close to "Product Chain Summary"

Yes ... it is very close and you have done a good job with it.

And of course Foodprocessing Plants 'produce' waste which is sold as fodder.... to the farms

wallyweb wrote:

George wrote:Woodchips and Pulp are ECS Wood products.

True ... but everything made from trees is a wood product, even the logs. Actually "wood product" usually refers to the finished product such as paper or furniture

And what is the right term for Woodchips and Pulp then?

Co-RNeR wrote:And of course Foodprocessing Plants 'produce' waste which is old as fodder.... to the farms

That looks like fertilizer in ECS Agricultural vector