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[BETA] 314, 315, 507, 508

Posted: 16 May 2005 15:42
by Bloodnok
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I've found out quite a bit about how a locomotion asset goes together by playing with this. I think I understand how to vary the length of a unit, (unknown "field_4"), how to reference different sets of sprites for each vehicle, or copy (and potentially reverse) a different vehicle.

I'm still not clear on bogies, but I'm pretty sure that "field_2" and "field_3" within structure "field_24" do something related to bogies - these appear to indicate both that the bogies are different, and which way round they are arranged. I'm not sure how to specify one type of bogie for one car of a multiple unit and one type for another. Has someone else been here and done that already? If so, have they written anything about how bogies work yet?

"field_5" in the same structure appears to define how far back or forward the sparking effect is, so I have managed to move the spark to where the shoegear is too. Making the number bigger appears to have moved the effect further back - I'm guessing the scale is out of 256, with 128 being in the centre of the vehicle, but I'm not 100% certain on this.

Is this vehicle something that people would be interested in having released? I remember the disdain that my first release was regarded with...

Posted: 16 May 2005 18:47
by alanp46
I'd be interested in it. No idea on the XML though, sorry.

Re: [wip] A fixed 508, and bogie assistance sought...

Posted: 16 May 2005 20:16
by Wessex_Electric_Nut
Bloodnok wrote: I've found out quite a bit about how a locomotion asset goes together by playing with this. I think I understand how to vary the length of a unit, (unknown "field_4"), how to reference different sets of sprites for each vehicle, or copy (and potentially reverse) a different vehicle.

I'm still not clear on bogies, but I'm pretty sure that "field_2" and "field_3" within structure "field_24" do something related to bogies - these appear to indicate both that the bogies are different, and which way round they are arranged. I'm not sure how to specify one type of bogie for one car of a multiple unit and one type for another. Has someone else been here and done that already? If so, have they written anything about how bogies work yet?

"field_5" in the same structure appears to define how far back or forward the sparking effect is, so I have managed to move the spark to where the shoegear is too. Making the number bigger appears to have moved the effect further back - I'm guessing the scale is out of 256, with 128 being in the centre of the vehicle, but I'm not 100% certain on this.

Is this vehicle something that people would be interested in having released? I remember the disdain that my first release was regarded with...
Bloodnok, I thought you gave up on Lomo all together!! Or thats what I am sure you told me in the chatroom! Anyway, yes I am interested, I'd like to see how the dat files work as I too am a complete dummy. If someone produces a trainz IM converter, I am sure that we would be using strings fleet of Class 313/4/5/507/8 and some of my stuff too.

(BTW, if this is the case, is it possible to make an articulated train by using the artic sections as bogies, rather like my Class 475 unit that you thought was too heavy for the track conditions? ;) )

Re: [wip] A fixed 508, and bogie assistance sought...

Posted: 16 May 2005 22:03
by Bloodnok
Wessex_Electric_Nut wrote:Bloodnok, I thought you gave up on Lomo all together!! Or thats what I am sure you told me in the chatroom!
I just got very irritated with it. I decided to leave it alone for a while, and come back later.

This time, I've done one very important thing: Not play the 'Britain' map. Problem with it is that the landscape is just so much more believable than the generated maps, but there is not enough space, particularly around London, to build sensible size stations and lines. Half the country turns into one big city, when there should be plenty of space between individual towns. The generated maps can be much better in this regard, even though the landscape can be a bit on the pants side.

As I haven't gone back and played the britain map, I haven't got so depressed about how lame the generated maps can look.

I've also managed to create a through station that allows trains to run through or terminate in minimal space (i.e. no loops) now. This was always a problem before - having the trains run off in different directions, even if you route them to a specific exit point.

Having played a map or two for a reasonable length, I'm getting a feel for what the game could be if only it had enough vehicles.

A better goods wagon is a requirement for the UK set. Can't be doing with the same 12t van with a max speed of 50mph for 100 years. And I happen to have a VAA and an FFA/FGA which I could import, if only I knew how to render them into locomotion sprites.

A MkIIIb DVT is also a requirement to go with the 90. This I would need to build, but it is something that's part of my planned future projects anyway, and it doesn't need to be a 20,000 poly monster for locomotion :). Having already built the MkIIIa carriage on which the design is based, I don't think it will be too hard to make a mesh for this to use for LoMo. Problem is how to render it from GMAX.

I'd love to make a 92 as well. Probably have to be one version for DC and one for AC, as I read somewhere here that if you set a vehicle up to use 3rd rail and overhead, it is an 'AND' requirement, not an 'OR' requirement. Plus, that means I can show the pantograph down on the DC version ;)
Anyway, yes I am interested, I'd like to see how the dat files work as I too am a complete dummy. If someone produces a trainz IM converter, I am sure that we would be using strings fleet of Class 313/4/5/507/8 and some of my stuff too.
I'd be quite happy with a .gmax to LoMo convertor, don't need to mess around with .im files ;)
(BTW, if this is the case, is it possible to make an articulated train by using the artic sections as bogies, rather like my Class 475 unit that you thought was too heavy for the track conditions? ;) )
Up to four 'vehicle' sections can be put in one unit, and it is possible that the bogies could be full height and be the articulation points of your 475, though I'm not sure how well it would render - the bogies don't have as many angles as the vehicle bodies, so aren't as smoothly animated.

If you watch the APT closely, it sets up the shared bogies when appropriate, and puts in separate ones when not, so there is a lot of potential for smart stuff in the bogies that we haven't found yet...

Posted: 20 May 2005 09:44
by Bloodnok
Okay, another tweak - about halfway through editing the graphics for this, all the flat ones are done, still have to do hills and some tidying up in one or two frames.

Now it's a 314 :)

ImageImageImage

Posted: 20 May 2005 10:25
by lobster
looks awesome! did you model them yourself, or use MSTS-LoMo converter?

Posted: 20 May 2005 10:44
by Illegal_Alien
If you look better you will see that this is a modified Locotrain :)

Posted: 20 May 2005 11:31
by Bloodnok
Illegal_Alien wrote:If you look better you will see that this is a modified Locotrain :)
Yup, the "508" in the game originally provided most of the pixels for this set of units. The centre car for the 507/508 is made by sticking the inside ends together, and the pantograph on the 314 is borrowed from another AC electric and stuck on by hand.

A 315 would be the 314 stretched with another centre trailer, which should be just an XML edit, and an original spec 508 would have two centre trailers, again, just an XML edit.

Only one left out of this set would be the 313, 3 car dual voltage. Locomotion doesn't want me to specify either 3rd rail or overhead, and there's not much point introducing it for just one, as it would then be the same as the 314 or 507...

I do have some original stuff (originally made for TRS) that I'd like to bring to Locomotion, but I'm not sure how to render the PNGs...

Posted: 26 May 2005 22:09
by Bloodnok
Bloodnok wrote:A 315 would be the 314 stretched with another centre trailer, which should be just an XML edit, and an original spec 508 would have two centre trailers, again, just an XML edit.

Only one left out of this set would be the 313, 3 car dual voltage. Locomotion doesn't want me to specify either 3rd rail or overhead, and there's not much point introducing it for just one, as it would then be the same as the 314 or 507...
Progress update, remaining art for the 314 is done, the 4 car variants (315 and 508) are done, but I did put together a 313, and for some reason, it's crashing locomotion when I try to run it. (It's the power cars from the 507 around the PTSO of the 314 - and configured for overhead only. I didn't think there was anything particularly special about it given the bits already work in other units, so I am surprised it's causing crashes.).

Expect a release when I've sorted this crashing thing out (and decided how much these should cost, and how reliable they should be).

For reliability: Would it be preferrable to have realistic figures, extended lifespan figures (i.e. ~200%), or 'no breakdowns' (i.e. 0).

Posted: 26 May 2005 22:17
by metalangel
I vote 200%... oh, and please price it reasonably... ChrisCF's 315 costs more than everything else you can buy.

Posted: 31 May 2005 10:27
by Bloodnok
metalangel wrote:I vote 200%... oh, and please price it reasonably... ChrisCF's 315 costs more than everything else you can buy.
Okay, here's an initial beta.

Reliability set to 'extended lifespan' of ~200%.

Prices more expensive than the 508 that shipped with the game, but proportional to how much more train you are getting, not stupidly expensive.

Still could use all the different values tweaking. Feedback welcome :)

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DOWNLOAD

Posted: 31 May 2005 10:56
by blackfour
The download link doesn't seem to work, which is a shame...
Tom

Posted: 31 May 2005 11:25
by Bloodnok
blackfour wrote:The download link doesn't seem to work, which is a shame...
Okay, should work now (D'oh!)

Posted: 31 May 2005 13:07
by blackfour
Works fine now, thanx for that!
Tom

Posted: 01 Jun 2005 18:12
by intercity125
i downloaded these vehicles, and tried to modify to have no breakdowns no obsolete.
However, when i placed them in game i was only successful running the game once.

Could it be that they could not be added to an existing scenario?
Could it be because i modified obsolete and breakdown data?

It said i had an error, and something about violation 00449303

Any ideas?

BTW, they looked ace when i did manage to get them to work!! :)

Posted: 04 Jun 2005 22:52
by Amtrak
okay i figured out something. i think. If using wrappertool set to No breakdown DAT files. you dont select no breakdwns/obselete!
Btw. i realised i was editing the xml of a different train. Editing the xml for the mu's didn't work.

Posted: 06 Jun 2005 16:43
by geordie_bri
Hey people,

I'm a first-time poster, so forgive my stupidity!

Anyway, is there any chance of posting the 'fixed' (if they are) trains up here please? They look brilliant, and i'm desperate to play on them! I would do them myself, but anything above VB6 and i'm lost!

Thanks, and it's brilliant work you developers are doing, keep up the good work!

Bri

Posted: 07 Jun 2005 07:34
by Amtrak
ok. here is a no breakdown zip.


btw Bloodnok: please let me know if you don't want me posting the files here.

Posted: 08 Jun 2005 09:42
by intercity125
BTW, Bloodnok, if you are able to do this with relative simplicity, would it be possible to create a 159 using the existing 158?

Posted: 13 Jun 2005 09:21
by ghostknife
Have just downloaded these 4 and am very impressed. Keep up the good work.