Transport Tycoon Forums

Please stay on topic!

This one is rather minor:

RFD Core Features wrote:The map scrolls when the cursor hits any side of the screen.

I actually hate "edge-push-scrolling" and prefer TTD-style rightclick-drag scrolling.
I suggest making both available, being able to have either one or both enabled. Possibly also allow both to be disabled. (There should still be other ways to scroll the map.)

I have no real preference but think of a player in construction mode. If you want to build a track beyond your current screen caption it would be nice to scroll on automaticly when it detects the border.

I agree with jfs.

Some work will have to be done to find the best option for dragging, If we use the right click for something, then it may not be able to use for dragging. Either way, you should be able to turn off each type of scrolling and change how fast it scrolls.

Steve wrote:Some work will have to be done to find the best option for dragging, If we use the right click for something, then it may not be able to use for dragging. Either way, you should be able to turn off each type of scrolling and change how fast it scrolls.

Settlers managed to both use right click for ordering your soldiers and navigation. So surely you can use it for both.

And eaven if we only use right mouse button for navigation, the left and middle button is left for commands.

Note: Not all mouses have middle buttons and it's not right to assume they will do.

Actually, we have to consider that most Apples for a large part still only have one mouse button. If you attach a mouse with two or more buttons, the right button will just work like holding the Option key and clicking, AFAIK. (Unless the program is aware of multibutton mice. Or maybe it's the other way around.)
Anyway, we should be prepared for the worst, so it should be possible to control the entire game using a single-button mouse.

Suggest that there should be serveral virtual mouse buttons that can be maped to the avilable buttons.

Virtual buttons:
* Navigation button
* General Tool button (use specified tool)
* Spefic tool button (always the same tool.)

And remember that apple often use ALT +Click for opening popup menues and such things that use to be right click on Windows / X Window System.

and a "select" button zuu ?


+ your navigation buttons would have to be split in: move, turn and zoom.

Maybe we should not treat hardware mouse buttons diffrent from hardware kwybord buttons. And map virtual butons with one or more set of hardware buttons that have to pe pressed togeather.

Maybe to complex, but will enable us to don't specify any minimum hardware required. And people that use to use a scroll mouse just map button 4 and 5 to what they like, and mac users can easily use alt+ mouse-click for navigation or whatever they want. Another thing we got, is that we have built in support for lefthand holded devices.

Left handed devices? I use my left hand to operate the mouse, but my settings are normal, so I click with my middle finger for LMB and with my index finger for RMB and the scroll wheel.

Hellfire wrote:Left handed devices? I use my left hand to operate the mouse, but my settings are normal, so I click with my middle finger for LMB and with my index finger for RMB and the scroll wheel.

/me too uses left hand to operate the mouse with standard settings. But before I did use the swap setting in the OS to get the buttons right. But I were anoyed that games use direct input from devices, so the swap setting in the OS were over ridden. However I use a trackball mouse. without scroll wheel.

But enoght about that.

During tonight's meeting, people were continually talking about how the game must be fully playable with a 2-button mouse. I though I made a clear point here: Apple still produces computers with 1-button mice as default! The game should run on a Mac. Conclusion: The game must be playable with a 1-button mouse.

Usually games that are designed to run primarily with two button mice are set up on Macs such that an option-click functions the same as a right click. Perhaps it would be simple to set up the game such that the user can pick what button combination would serve as a right click, as well...

zuu wrote:Suggest that there should be serveral virtual mouse buttons that can be maped to the avilable buttons.

Virtual buttons:
* Navigation button
* General Tool button (use specified tool)
* Spefic tool button (always the same tool.)

And remember that apple often use ALT +Click for opening popup menues and such things that use to be right click on Windows / X Window System.

WIth this soluttion users with few mouse buttons can choose to map a keybord key ( AND optionally a moucebutton) to functions that usaly would reside on middle/right button.

By using "move map when hit the border" as default we can 'save' one button, if that button oly would have been used to pan the map.

jfs wrote:Apple still produces computers with 1-button mice as default! The game should run on a Mac. Conclusion: The game must be playable with a 1-button mouse.

Piffle. The line has to be drawn somewhere. One button doth not a mouse make.
Cheap 2-button mouse is around £3 - Mac users have no excuse for not buying one as soon as they get the computer.

Indeed, what the hell would someone want a one-button mouse for?

Arathorn wrote:Indeed, what the hell would someone want a one-button mouse for?

Then, why whould anyone want a mouce with only 2 buttons???

I mean windows users cant imagne being without thier second button. But then there is next step, Uniz users that cant live without the third button, usaly used to paste contents of coppy buffer. So everything is relative.

But lets say that one mouse button is used for using tools and navigate the gui. Then users can use the other mouce button for things like naviagation and other things that can also be acessed from the keybord. And by enable "move map when mouse pointer hit the morder" as default I think you can survive with only one button.


As ChrisCF stated, everything should be doable via the keybord.

zuu wrote:As ChrisCF stated, everything should be doable via the keybord.

I wonder, could a requirement like this work? "The game must be fully playable on a computer where the only input device is a Happy Hacking keyboard." Or is that too strict?

(For those who don't know it, the Happy Hacking keyboard is an extremely stripped down keyboard, optimised for use by Unix geeks. Picture)

Having to use the keyboard at all is bad. Except what ever mac users do to right click. I really don't think we should bother about 1 button mice, the person who designed them, and the people that sell them should be locked up.
About the console: It shouldn't be necessary for anything. From customizing Half life 2, some important options for improving performance are hiding in the console thing. They shouldn't be. They should be put under advanced on the graphics setup screen. I'm not saying you shouldn't be access them via the console, it just shouldn't be the only way.