stations and signals

cces · Post by **cces** » 07 Nov 2004 17:05

I have a problem with a six platform station that takes coal and has several trains that go to it. However sometimes when a train is in a platform, one of the other trains tries to enter this platform even though other platforms are free. It is the first platform that it comes to and does not always happen. I have added a screenshot of the problem. My other query is how do you remove signals without having to demolish the whole track? Also how do the trains get serviced as they have no depots as Transport Tycoon does? My trains seem to get unreliable very quickly.
It feels a very different game to Transport Tycoon although it looks more realistic. I have been playing TT since it came out!

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 07 Nov 2004 17:08

Screenshot?

cces · Post by **cces** » 07 Nov 2004 17:55

I thought I had added it but now notice that it does not like BMP files so i have changed it to a PNG file.

Severous · Post by **Severous** » 07 Nov 2004 21:02

Hi cces.

Im puzzelled why all the signals at the start of each platform are red. It seems to be saying that none of the platforms are clear to enter. Wonder why that is ? I would be tempted to destroy that road across the far end of the station just to see if it made any difference....it shouldnt.

Your stuck train doesnt have much room to back up then try another platform...even if it wanted to.

You can remove signals. You can remove both, or just one from a pair, by very carefully pointing at the signal then right clicking. Do it just like you are going to place a signal...and its just as fussy to get it just right.

To get out of that fix I suggest you pick up the empty coal train thats in platform one and replace it at the coal mine station. That wont solve the layout/signal problem in the long run but hopefuly your train will enter the now vacant platform.

Good luck

cces · Post by **cces** » 07 Nov 2004 21:39

I have removed the road but it makes no difference. I also have removed three of the platforms entrances and have noticed that the signals work very differently to TT. Only one entrance signal to the station goes yellow at one time, the rest stay red. If there is a train waiting to enter the single line bit before the station, all the trains in the station are allowed to leave before this one can enter (as long as they want to leave). Also if there is an incoming train further down the line going to the station that has not yet entered the single track bit and that has not stopped, this train goes to the station before any trains in the station leave. This does not explain my problem but it looks as if a complicated signalling system is in place in Locomotion.
Do you know the answer to my depot query?

Sorryaboutthemess · Post by **Sorryaboutthemess** » 07 Nov 2004 22:07

Cces: I reccomend that you separate the incoming and outgoing lines as much as possible. Then you could have your one way incoming signal closer to the two-ways signals. You don't want your tracks to overlap, it decreases the volume of trains they can take. See the screenshot for the part you should split up into two tracks.

RangaKoo · Post by **RangaKoo** » 08 Nov 2004 12:12

Do the trains have set routes?

As a stop-gap solution.... try picking up the train and setting it down in one of the platforms, then see if it can find its way out.

cces · Post by **cces** » 08 Nov 2004 21:00

yes they do have set routes, they all go from a station by a coal mine to the big station. I seem to have solved the problem by removing and then replacing all the tracks and signals leading into the station. However I have noticed that the trains can get confused if you change signals around or move them down the line. I had one sitting at a signal as the signal was still red even though it should have been green, maybe because I changed the signals position. I had to actually delete the signal before the train would move, it would not go even when I clicked on the 'go through signal' button. So I have solved my original problem but there seems to be a basic problem with the signals if they changed.

Royal Bavarian · Post by **Royal Bavarian** » 11 Nov 2004 17:43

I'm suffering from the exact same problem.

Here's my theory. This happens when a train moves from the station or is trying to reach it from behind. It then takes control of all signals, cancelling any chance for a train coming from the opposite direction to enter the station.

Insane? Yes.

In its confusion the latter train will try to enter a station track which is occupied, since all the others are already red.

Royal Bavarian · Post by **Royal Bavarian** » 11 Nov 2004 17:55

Screenshot of the situation. Train at lower left has taken control of all tracks of "Wertover Hauptbahnhof". The desperate passenger entering from the main line tries for the one track occupied by another goods train at the station.

Royal Bavarian · Post by **Royal Bavarian** » 11 Nov 2004 17:56

I can't upload screenshots for some reason.

Prof. Frink · Post by **Prof. Frink** » 11 Nov 2004 18:50

What format is it in? try .png

Royal Bavarian · Post by **Royal Bavarian** » 11 Nov 2004 20:19

Thanks. Took it raw from the Loco folder, which is .bmp. Somehow though, I can't change .jpg, .bmp etc files into .png by renaming the image.

Oh well, guess it's not a matter of life and death.

cces · Post by **cces** » 12 Nov 2004 07:45

I opened my picture as a .bmp file and then saved it as a .png file. you can then attatch the .png file to your message

Severous · Post by **Severous** » 13 Nov 2004 19:19

Somethings up.

I dont understand.

This is basically the same layout as above.

6 engines waiting for a chance to haul coal to the steel mill station. Wasnt designed to be efficient - just to recreate the problem above.

And it did...recreate the problem

. You can see where this train came from - and after delivering its load where it should return. But it wants platform one

Further research:
- Sometimes it goes back to its platform...sometimes it wants platform one

- If it has no orders it always finds the vacant platform...interesting
- Problem always with it wanting platform one..never trying to get into platform 2 or 3
- Can be solved by lifting the empty train out of the way...but it happens time and time again so not a lasting solution.
- I went bankrupt

Ive had similar issues in another game when entering a roro station...trains often wanted wanted the nearest platform

So puzzelled. Especially about the inconsistency. Why sometime it goes to its own platform...yet too often it goes for platform one.

Theories:
- Pathfinding is looking for shortest journey irrespective of obstales ?
- Another train in a platform is reserving the route back into the empty station leaving nowhere for the moving train to go back to

Going to try
- All having express orders
- All having orders with just load coal (no stations)

This type of signal layout is extreme yet we should expect a more common sense outcome of the routing

RangaKoo · Post by **RangaKoo** » 14 Nov 2004 12:53

the official patch mentions something about solving a problem that sounds like what you are experiencing here.

cces · Post by **cces** » 14 Nov 2004 16:45

have they brought out a patch yet? I have seen no mention of one on the Locomotion website.

Severous · Post by **Severous** » 14 Nov 2004 19:03

Ive been testing this some more.

- Express rather than local. Made no difference.

- Having orders 'load coal' and no station. Didnt expect that to work and it didnt. Just sat at the steel mill station waiting for coal. A quickly proven point.

-I then started again. Built a profitable tram network to support my experiement to keep me solvent. Then started with one, two then three platforms.

- Worked without any problems. Added line 4, platform 4, line 5 and platform 5. Added trains 4 & 5. No problems. Was ineffieicent now - and needed the profits from the trams. The trains had orders to load coal and take it to the steel mill. Absolutely no problems with them finding their way back to a vacant platform.

- This screen shot is where the problems started.

Soon as I connected line 6 the trains started having pathing problems. Trying to go back into platform one rather than an empty platform. Added platform 6. Still a problem.

- It only worked when I deleted all the trains routing orders. They then always found an empty platform.

- After doing that I start selling trains. The remaining trains still had problems if I gave them route orders. Even three trains had routing problems.

- Only when there were a mere two trains (and 6 platforms) and orders did the layout work.

So my conclusion, pre patch, is dont build junctions with more that 5 exits. Certainly not 6 platform stations with a common approach. If you need to do that then avoid having orders on the trains.

Im hoping the patch will sort this. And that there is a patch suitable for european editions of the game.

So going right back to the first post of cces...make it a 5 platform station.

RangaKoo · Post by **RangaKoo** » 15 Nov 2004 13:24

6 platforms
6 trains
6..........er.... orders?

The number of evil!!!!

But in all seriousness, there are threads about where to get the patch in general locomotion.

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 15 Nov 2004 14:22

The reason the train is going for a reserved platform cause there is no one way signal acting as a "Presignal" for it to choose, or a two way.

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