Japan Earthquake (Fri 11th March)

[John]

Actually, I found a lot of the footage taken on camera phones of this earthquake a little unnerving, simply because the person reached for their camera rather than prioritizing the basic human instinct of survival...

Yes - why dive under the table when I can get some really cool camera footage...

Swedish media is reporting decreasing radiation levels, and that even the 2nd fire of Reactor 4 is certainly under control now. As it is now, if nothing new happens, the radiation levels and the core temperatures will continue to decrease... Such varying reports, it is impossible to know what is happening

Given the lack of apocalyptic news on the bbc and others it looks like the situation has once again stabilised and the temperatures either dropping or have reached a stable level.
Radiation levels have peaked and then decreased after every 'explosion', 'fire' or 'nuclear explosion' (delete as appropriate depending on news source), so I suspect they are back down to probably 'high' background levels.

Lufthansa has stopped flying into Tokyo, apparently because of the radiation. And several other airlines don't want people overnighting in Tokyo. Many claim this is because of radiation fears, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Hotel room shortage in Tokyo.

For those that find Lufthansas decision strange - the Germans seem to have a lot of 'Angst'. Panicking over events (especially nuclear events in other countries) seems to be a national past time here.

I also find it amusing - according to planetmakers data - radiation from intercontinental jet travel is 12 times higher then background radiation (assuming it is infact a linear scale).

Although the data I found on chest x-rays has 32µSv (which is significantly higher then planetmakers) - and his source also lists it as 0.03rad (which is 300µSv) with a CT scan being 11000µSv (which are even higher). Note these are not per hour, so a comparison with the radiation level's from the reactor aren't that straight forward.
Also, a single high dosage will do more damage then receiving that same dosage over a year

[JamieLei]

And for a break - some more objective statements:

- Yes there is higher than normal radiation in Tokyo. Which is far below levels that is harmful to human health. Talking about "clouds of radiation" gives out the whole wrong message.

- Some families are beginning to evacuate from the Tokyo area. Two of my friends have now left for their home countries.

- Lufthansa have stopped flying to Tokyo, yes and are diverting their flights Nagoya and Osaka (Kansai). This probably has just as much to do with the fact that it's difficult to get to Tokyo Narita International Airport at the moment because the trains are on-and-off-suspended due to power cuts than the radiation. Transport here in West Japan remains normal.

- The Thai authorities are giving passengers who are departing for Japan iodine tablets.

- We get our power here in Kansai from the Kansai Electric Company (関西電力）which as Kevin mentioned, runs on 60hz rather than 50. Whether that has anything to do with anything, I don't know. If they were trying to conserve power, they would reduce the frequency of the trains, and having used them the past 3 days, everything's been running bang-on-schedule.

- Some of the normal programming on TV has returned to normal, while NHK is continuing with 24hour coverage. The adverts are all for public manners and being nice to your neighbours, etc.

- There have been more earthquakes in the Tokyo area. We didn't feel it here.

- The radiation levels rose this morning at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant, but have fallen again.

- France is advising its citizens to leave, and has chartered 2 additional planes to allow its citizens to return home.

- Particularly in East Japan, such as Tokyo, people are stockpiling.

- The death toll is not nice to watch on TV. I got a shock today when what I initially thought was the total count, was just for one prefecture.

- It's snowing in Kyoto again, which is meant to be in the warmer part of the country. It's dropped below 0 again in the devastation area.

- The UK embassy contacted me today to confirm that I'm OK.

Finally: Please read this message from the Government's Chief Scientific Officer Professor John Beddington's comments on the developments following the explosion at Fukushima nuclear plant.

"Let me now talk about what would be a reasonable worst case scenario. If the Japanese fail to keep the reactors cool and fail to keep the pressure in the containment vessels at an appropriate level, you can get this, you know, the dramatic word “meltdown”. But what does that actually mean? What a meltdown involves is the basic reactor core melts, and as it melts, nuclear material will fall through to the floor of the container. There it will react with concrete and other materials … that is likely… remember this is the reasonable worst case, we don’t think anything worse is going to happen. In this reasonable worst case you get an explosion. You get some radioactive material going up to about 500 metres up into the air. Now, that’s really serious, but it’s serious again for the local area. It’s not serious for elsewhere even if you get a combination of that explosion it would only have nuclear material going in to the air up to about 500 metres. If you then couple that with the worst possible weather situation i.e. prevailing weather taking radioactive material in the direction of Greater Tokyo and you had maybe rainfall which would bring the radioactive material down do we have a problem? The answer is unequivocally no. Absolutely no issue. The problems are within 30 km of the reactor. And to give you a flavour for that, when Chernobyl had a massive fire at the graphite core, material was going up not just 500 metres but to 30,000 feet. It was lasting not for the odd hour or so but lasted months, and that was putting nuclear radioactive material up into the upper atmosphere for a very long period of time. But even in the case of Chernobyl, the exclusion zone that they had was about 30 kilometres. And in that exclusion zone, outside that, there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate people had problems from the radiation. The problems with Chernobyl were people were continuing to drink the water, continuing to eat vegetables and so on and that was where the problems came from. That’s not going to be the case here. So what I would really re-emphasise is that this is very problematic for the area and the immediate vicinity and one has to have concerns for the people working there. Beyond that 20 or 30 kilometres, it’s really not an issue for health."

Source: http://ukinjapan.fco.gov.uk/en/news/?vi ... =566799182

[John]

- We get our power here in Kansai from the Kansai Electric Company (関西電力）which as Kevin mentioned, runs on 60hz rather than 50. Whether that has anything to do with anything, I don't know. If they were trying to conserve power, they would reduce the frequency of the trains, and having used them the past 3 days, everything's been running bang-on-schedule.

The difference in 50 and 60 Hz might make it harder to "pump" electricity from 1 grid to the other - making the shortage in the north worse. For the consumer, devices are built to cope with both (in a similar manner that the UK used to be 240V and Europe 230V, but some clever changing of acceptable tolerances made them the same without having to change infrastructure).

I suspect the train company owns its powerplants (or the person that owns the track owns the powerplant). As such you have cross company problems (the rolling blackouts are your problem, not ours) and while the track supply will be linked to the national grid, it is probably only sized at a level to cope with peak train demand (drawing power from the grid) or dumping extra juice into the grid, and not for transferring huge excesses. I wouldn't be surprised if they were transferring all their spare, but the links are full so they may as well run all their services.

And its good to see Britain hasn't yet panicked and ordered an evacuation. As long as they keep listening to the scientist rather than the media (or scientists after 5 minutes of fame...)

[orudge]

For the consumer, devices are built to cope with both (in a similar manner that the UK used to be 240V and Europe 230V, but some clever changing of acceptable tolerances made them the same without having to change infrastructure).

Some devices are, but not all. Computers, for instance, should be fine. Electric clocks, probably not so much (well, they might well work, but they're likely to be fast or slow when used on the wrong frequency). Old analogue CRT-based TVs also tend to be tied to a particular frequency (ever wondered why television frame rates are 25fps in Europe and 30fps in the US?).

[John]

Indeed, assuming the clocks use the frequency to keep the time. Jamie may be able to correct me - but I seem to remember from my travels to japan that some appliances had a 50-60Hz switch so it could be used in both the east and west.

A brief google suggests that both are interconnected around Tokyo (via HVDC) so the south is probably sending lots of juicy goodness north.


My own opinion on the cancelled flights is that they are overreacting a touch - but that also demand has shrunk hugely. I just don't imagine there is a demand at the moment for all those flights into and out of Tokyo (even ignoring the fact no-one can get to Narita because the train isn't running). And of course the newspapers being the sensible fact reporting bunch of people they are linked it into the radiation.
Lufthansa's own news update just says they are redirecting all flights to Osaka due to "the circumstances in Japan".

[JamieLei]

Yeah - I did notice that Lufthansa didn't specify the reason why.

I don't know if the train companies own their own power plants - I wouldn't be too surprised if they did, but the sheer amount of trains being cancelled in Tokyo at the moment makes me think otherwise.

[SHADOW-XIII]

I heard that US citizens (in US) bought out all supplies of iodine tablets .... I nearly fall from my chair ... the human stupidity never stops to amaze me

[Kevo00]

A friend of mine in the US saw a report on ABC where a reporter walked around a supermarket with a Geiger counter testing bananas for radiation, with the inevitable conclusion that there was 'no threat to us here'. It would be funny if 10,000 people hadn't died in the original earthquake and tsunami.

[Kogut]

"But even in the case of Chernobyl, the exclusion zone that they had was about 30 kilometres. And in that exclusion zone, outside that, there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate people had problems from the radiation. The problems with Chernobyl were people were continuing to drink the water, continuing to eat vegetables and so on and that was where the problems came from. That’s not going to be the case here."

I think that it was rather poor organisation:
"Shortly after the accident, firefighters arrived to try to extinguish the fires. First on the scene was a Chernobyl Power Station firefighter brigade under the command of Lieutenant Volodymyr Pravik, who died on 9 May 1986 of acute radiation sickness. They were not told how dangerously radioactive the smoke and the debris were, and may not even have known that the accident was anything more than a regular electrical fire: "We didn't know it was the reactor. No one had told us."" (etc, etc)

from wikipedia

[Voyager One]

First of all, my sincere sympathy for the Japanese nation.



There's a big difference between Fukushima and Chernobyl. Now, I'm not a nuclear expert but...

The thing is that every reactor has a "casing" that contains all it's parts (rods, water, fuel...). The reaction heats water that turns into steam and powers steam turbines that make electricity. It's as simple as that. That same water return to the reactor cooled and it's used to cool down the reactor too. And everything works fine until the water level is steady.

However, in Fukushima, the water system failed, the reactor got overheated and they needed to pump in some seawater for cooling. The heat and other chemical processes caused that seawater to evaporate and some of it to separate to oxygen and hydrogen (which is explosive) - BUM. Fortunately, the reactor chamber wasn't involved - the explosion took place outside the chamber, within that cubical building and it was that building that went into the air. So... until the chamber is intact, the only radiation that can leak is that irradiated steam.

Chernobyl - completely different story. Not only the building blew up, the chamber blew up too. That was it - catastrophy. And that's the main difference.

[SHADOW-XIII]

indeed, there are many differences between here now & there then not mentioning that US is on the other side of the globe from Japan

[rdrdrdrd]

yeah, part of the problem with news agencies are reporting this is they want to sensationalize everything, this is a relatively localized thing, but the MSM reports it as if were all going to die

[Kamikazi spoon]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo
Apparently this is from tokyo. 3 days ago it read ~ 12.0cpm
Now its 14.4cpm. "Enormous rise" in radiation, it could just be a normal rise in background radiation. The news doesn't even mention anything about what actually is being emitted from the reactor and/or the materials' half life.

However, something is very concerning on how little information is being told, apparently, the police are getting involved now with a large water cannon which is to be used to cool the reactor's fuel pools. Sea water is abundant but for some reason its still just sitting there. The main reason why it concerns me is, is it so desperate to require police assistance? and is the reason why they havn't begun pumping is because there's too much radiation around the reactor?

All this lack of information just adds to the conspiracy theories...

[Dave]

Also that seawater will essentially render the reactors unusable again. Are they trying to protect them to be used in the future, possibly?

[rdrdrdrd]

well it is a massive investment, so i would bet they are attempting to save them

[Chrill]

From what I heard, they had already begun pumping in sea water several days ago but that they had to cease doing so for some reason... All I know is, I don't even dare trusting news anymore because every other hour I hear a report of impending doom, only to be replaced by a "Naah it's no problem whatsoever".. I only trust what I hear from people in Japan

[JamieLei]

Also that seawater will essentially render the reactors unusable again. Are they trying to protect them to be used in the future, possibly?

To be honest, the moment that they started pumping seawater into the reactors, they were unusable from that moment on. It's been described as an an "unusual" move, since seawater is corrosive, although there's not much that can be done.

Let me stress that the other Nuclear Power Plant, Daiichi, has been cooled down safely and poses no threat any more.

I'm still planning to go on travel to Toyama next week, although now some family members are freaking out about that. Toyama is still further away from the reactors than Tokyo.

I was absolutely livid yesterday when a concerned family member had understood that "one company in Osaka is evacuating its workforce" to mean that the ENTIRE 8 MILLION PEOPLE of Osaka are being evacuated. Resulting in mass panic back home. It's almost as if some people WANT there to be a disaster.

Edit: Just got message that a third friend from the dorm has just left for Hong Kong for 10 days. He's French and the French Authorities are advising evacuation for the time being.

[Voyager One]

The sea water is pumped over and inside the reactor vessel (red circle) because the level of liquid inside has dropped due to pumping system malfunctions and damages. If that liquid's level drop under a certain level, the reactor rods remain on dry and they start to melt, consequently melting the reactor vessel (reactor chamber) and releasing highly irradiated particles into the air (that's what happened in Chernobyl).

They have to use sea water because it's the only water available in enormous quantities. However, the water damages to the reactor should be minimal as it could be just washed with fresh water once it has cooled and shut completely. In fact, sea salt can be washed from the chamber walls easily, those control rods can be changed easily (they are changed every time they get "used") and the fuel inside is also changed on a regular basis.

The reason why they ceased pumping at one moment is because those explosions have sent a some radioactive dust into the air and it was unsafe for personnel to remain close. That's the same reason why the helicopter couldn't approach safely. However, the pumping resumed, both with inner pumping facilities and with water cannons from outside.

What exploded was the roof of that containment structure (green circle) - that cubical building. It exploded because of the accumulated hydrogen, nothing else.

And once again, the media have exaggerated things to an unbelievable point - the radiation IS higher but still within some allowed parameters. The mass of the released particles is approximately only 0,01% of the particles that would have been released in a real core meltdown (that Chernobyl scenario). That still doesn't mean that radiation can't harm. It can in a "minor" extent and the evacuation is a wise move, just to be safe.

[Nextra]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo
Apparently this is from Tokyo. 3 days ago it read ~ 12.0cpm
Now its 14.4cpm. "Enormous rise" in radiation, it could just be a normal rise in background radiation. The news doesn't even mention anything about what actually is being emitted from the reactor and/or the materials' half life.

The two main isotopes that are being released as far as I know are;

Iodine-131 (medically used to detect thyroid cancer) has a half life of 8 days
Cesium-137 has a half life of 30.5 years

However, because neither of them are "Gamma" radiation, Gamma being the key word, they are both Beta and Alpha respectively, They can be blocked out by a piece of wood.

Also that seawater will essentially render the reactors unusable again. Are they trying to protect them to be used in the future, possibly?

To be honest, the moment that they started pumping seawater into the reactors, they were unusable from that moment on. It's been described as an an "unusual" move, since seawater is corrosive, although there's not much that can be done.

Three things add:
-The seawater reduces the effectiveness of the Cadmium Control rods especially in such circumstances as they become soft and brittle. More so because of the rapid changes in temperature. ( Water cools, reactor heats, water cools etc etc)
-The seawater reacts chemically reducing the melting point of the outer casing of the fuel rods which if they melt off will also expose later attempts at reducing the heat and increasing the exposure to dangerous radiation
-And then to top that off the tsunami flooded the whole facility anyway.

[Kamikazi spoon]

Another thing to add is that the reactors are 40 years old now, they were due to be decommisioned within a couple of years anyway.