Busstop Picture / Dev Topic

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 12 Mar 2005 01:41

One question, as I havent -played around with the test version of the busses patch much yet, will the drive-through stops have a much smaller catchment area? Seems more realistic to me.

Could you also allow building multiple of the same type of bus-station (Or lorry station) next to each other? Ala OTTD style?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 12 Mar 2005 01:56

Aegir wrote:One question, as I havent -played around with the test version of the busses patch much yet, will the drive-through stops have a much smaller catchment area? Seems more realistic to me.

I sure hope not, the catchment areas are too small as they are.

Aegir wrote:Could you also allow building multiple of the same type of bus-station (Or lorry station) next to each other? Ala OTTD style?

No.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 12 Mar 2005 02:06

But the way TTD vehicles work, all passengers would have come from the last station where passengers were picked up.

EDIT: This is what happens when you don't notice that little "5" down there v

This was in reply to the suggestion on the previous page that it be possible to set busses to only load.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 12 Mar 2005 02:07

krtaylor wrote:
Aegir wrote:One question, as I havent -played around with the test version of the busses patch much yet, will the drive-through stops have a much smaller catchment area? Seems more realistic to me.
I sure hope not, the catchment areas are too small as they are.

Then increase the catchment of the bus stations and make them more expensive, just dont keep them the same, thats not how I've ever seen them operate in real life. The larger bus-stations are usually used as inter-changes and the smaller drive-throughs are used as the actual stops along the way.

I catch busses every morning and afternoon, Im fairly familiar now with how they lay out stations

.

krtaylor wrote:
Aegir wrote:Could you also allow building multiple of the same type of bus-station (Or lorry station) next to each other? Ala OTTD style?
No.

I thought Eis_os was the one coding this? And also, a good detailed answer for why you dislike the idea would of been more polite.

But meh, who cares. Its good either way, and I will look forward to seeing your work when its completed Oskar.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 12 Mar 2005 02:21

Aegir wrote: Then increase the catchment of the bus stations and make them more expensive, just dont keep them the same, thats not how I've ever seen them operate in real life. The larger bus-stations are usually used as inter-changes and the smaller drive-throughs are used as the actual stops along the way.

You are absolutely correct about the way busses work. However, now you're getting into the limitations of the cargo rules. One thing about the passengers that really bugs me is that they don't have any particular destination when they go to a station - they just "want to go for a ride" o whatever happens to pick them up. Personally, I would think it much better if each person had a destination - wanting to go to some other station in that same town; wanting to go to neighboring towns; wanting to go to a major city elsewhere on the map; and maybe a very few wanting to go to a small town far away. Then, when a vehicle arrived, they examine whether its route would get it where they want to go, or if not, whether they could change vehicles at a later stop to a different one to get them where they want to go, etc. If the passengers worked that way, your plan would be excellent.

Unfortunately, they don't, and I don't think it's at all likely that they ever will, because the TTD data structures don't allow it.

Aegir wrote:And also, a good detailed answer for why you dislike the idea would of been more polite.

No, no, multi-bus-stations is an excellent idea, and has been wanted forever. It's just totally impossible because of the way the routing system works. Do a search and you'll find discussion on this ad inifinitum. It's right up there in the Impossible List.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 12 Mar 2005 04:01

krtaylor wrote:It's just totally impossible because of the way the routing system works.

I noticed patchman has an item in his todo list about abutting waypoints to stations without them becomming a part of the station so I have to assume that its something that might be worth investigating at a later time. If the concept proves to be valid, then perhaps it could be adapted to same type stations and then we could string a couple of unique bus stops adjacent to each other with names like platform 1, platform 2, etc.

But I think we may be pushing eis_os ahead of himself. Why don't we let him get a single bus stop working properly first and then look at expansions later?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 12 Mar 2005 09:07

Wow so many questions. I hope I don't forget someone

First if you need to know how something is stored into TTD please take a look at Marcins Savegame internals (sv1codec site).

Passengers don't have destination, I think it would aswell kill the gameplay.
It's Transport Tycoon, if you want destination play Simutrans, Traffic Gigant, Mobility or something.
Anyway a vehicle can only store the amount, the source and the cargotype, so when loading again at station, the source is overwritten...

Busstops are a special kind of bus station, the are stored the same, they have the same route system. No way to have different. The last unused station array dword is used for random bits and stuff...

It would be general possible to have a more tile busstop (but only with one entrance/exit tile) with up to 6 loading bays, but that would kill the gameplay aswell.

The catch array is for every station tile the same, I am not going to touch that... And it's only for accepting stuff, the other way is archived with the station sign position.

I try to keep the game balanced as most possible to Chris Sawyers intention. We can put A LOT unfinished stuff (gameplay wise), gameplay killer in TTD. TTDPatch isn't OpenTTD. I don't start screwing the Gameplay!

pETe! · Post by **pETe!** » 12 Mar 2005 11:10

And it is possible to keep the old source?

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 12 Mar 2005 13:00

eis_os wrote:Wow so many questions. I hope I don't forget someone

I think you covered it all and very nicely too! Thanks for the update.

eis_os wrote: I don't start screwing the Gameplay!

I for one agree ... which means one or two busses at a time per bus stop and following busses can wait their turn

and a bus doesn't take long to unload/load anyway. As for different bus types, I can always set that when I set the route. If I wan't intercity to use a busstop, then I have that option the same as with the current bus stations. I am liking it more and more.

Now I am going to go and play a game or build a scenario or something and wait patiently for this touch of elegance.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 12 Mar 2005 19:35

pETe! wrote:And it is possible to keep the old source?

Sorry could you repeat? What old source?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 12 Mar 2005 20:14

Please vote so I can get a better overview if people want a local default or a express default for busstops

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 12 Mar 2005 20:25

eis_os wrote:Please vote so I can get a better overview if people want a local default or a express default for busstops

Pardon my ignorance but I'm not familiar with those default terms. If local default means that it is to be used in an urban/city setting primarily by local service busses then that has my vote.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 12 Mar 2005 20:29

Please read again the question:

Local Mode = Even it's not the right station mentioned in the order it will stop and load/unload
Express Mode = If the station and the station in the order aren't the same -> don't stop

Got it now?

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 12 Mar 2005 20:32

In yet other words, Local is what you'd use for busses that should stop everywhere along the route, even if the stop isn't on the list explicitly. Express is what you'd use for busses that should ignore all other stops and only stop at those that are expressly (pun accidentally intended) on its list.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 12 Mar 2005 21:16

eis_os wrote:Express Mode = If the station and the station in the order aren't the same -> don't stop.Got it now?

Patchman wrote:Express is what you'd use for busses that should ignore all other stops and only stop at those that are expressly (pun accidentally intended) on its list.

OK! OK! I got it!

Thanks guys and my vote is for express mode as one has more control over the busses. Even in a city, busses should follow a prescribed route although where I live, the drivers will actually stop between stops and let you on. Maybe ... Naw! I won't even go there.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 12 Mar 2005 21:53

Actually, you have the exact same amount of control in both cases, the question is just which of the two behaviours should be the default. You select the other one by setting an option in the order list.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 12 Mar 2005 21:53

I vote for Express mode as the default.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 12 Mar 2005 22:04

Another thing I should mention (no I'm not trying to influence the vote

) is that this would only apply to bus stops. A bus would (should) never enter a regular bus station unless it's on its order list.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 12 Mar 2005 22:12

eis_os wrote:
pETe! wrote:And it is possible to keep the old source?
Sorry could you repeat? What old source?

s/source/origination\ point/ , I think.

pETe! · Post by **pETe!** » 12 Mar 2005 23:58

eis_os wrote:
pETe! wrote:And it is possible to keep the old source?
Sorry could you repeat? What old source?

The Systm i have descibed befor.
To keep the old Source of the Cargo/passengers if you load smthng to the existing load....

About Exress/Local...

What do you think about a bit-switch?

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