FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[EXTspotter]

You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!

[andythenorth]

You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!

Fortunately I have several tractors, but they won't be needed here. They go on a different tile (the beach tile, not drawn). The slipway will have a lift cradle (not drawn) running on the rails (drawn), hauled by a winch (not drawn).

So much to draw

[FooBar]

I like that slipway. Good work!

You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!

You haven't seen TopGear I suppose. As long as the transmission works boats should be able to get up there on their own

[DaleStan]

You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!

Sure they can. Wait for high tide, float on over the slipway, wait for tide to roll out.

[andythenorth]

[...snip...]Wait for high tide, float on over the slipway, wait for tide to roll out.

Is someone coding tidal seas then? [/ducks]

[Zhall]

maybe you should add cow corpses on the roof to make it look more realistic

very pretty, well done!

... and a cow in a meat grinder as in postal 2...

Now thats lul!

...........

What about the meat packing process is family friendly? They take cows, kill them, and cut them up into peices. Ok, lets shelter little johnny and tell him that the ratburgers he's eating a mcdonalds arent made from a compinations of 300 or 400 cattle from 4-5 different countries and tell him that that 100% beef is all soy, which most of it is....

Family friendly...

still a lul

[George]

... I can add information to the FIRS site, what information and format would be most useful ...

A list of FIRS industries that are planned to be located within town and city boundaries, including accepted and produced cargo types.

This raises an interesting question. Some town 'industries' from the FIRS list might be better implemented as 'houses' (please if you don't understand the distinctions from a newgrf perspective, stay out of this conversation).

However what criteria should be used to decide implementing as a 'house' or an 'industry'? What are the factors:
- town buildings may relocate as the town grows, this could disrupt player's existing routes

You can disallow house demolition by player / town

- industries may close if not served with cargo. This could leave towns unable to accept certain types of goods.

you can disallow closure if there is no required industry nearby

This could be solved with code. Houses do not close in the same way.

Hoses can control the number of houses of the required type / class in the town

- it's possible to code for a certain mix of houses in a town. It's more difficult to do this with industries (there is the distance varaction among other things, but using these well is not trivial conceptually or in the implementation).

the only problem with industries is a space to build. Bank styled industries remove howses to be build

- what else?? I haven't coded any houses before, so I am looking for input

Specify what you need and we'll find a way

So how should this work in FIRS? Here are some examples:
- Gas Station accepts fuel oil (also food, goods). Presumably there won't be many gas stations in a typical town. Players will likely build routes with tank trucks to a RV station next to the truck station. Will be annoying if the RV station stops accepting fuel oil due to industry relocation. So seems like an industry, not a house?

a house

- Retail Market is envisaged graphically as a market square as found in many towns worldwide. These don't often relocate, so in that respect are industry-like. However it would be desirable to control their number (one per town) and location (near the middle of town), so also house-like?

Both houses and industries can control it

- General Store seems to be straightforward: it's a house and there can be n per town (minimum one), located wherever.

same here

- Waste Collection Point. If needed at all, seems best to implement as a house.

yes

IMHO, every industry, that can be coded as a house should be coded that way.

[George]

I think houses are the best (functionally) way to code some of these industries, although maybe not practically, a couple of things to think about:
* I would have a look at some existing house newgrf's code, especially the north american city set - this has some "landmark" buildings which, IIRC, cannot be demolished by the player, ai or the town so "stay still".
* Any town building "industry" will not appear on maps...

??? what do you mean by that?

[Zephyris]

A town building can never appear as a colour coded industry on the mini-map, it would make it hard to find rare industries coded as town buildings...

[Eddi]

So seems like an industry, not a house?

a house

the most important difference to consider (imho) is that industries can be funded by a player and spawn a message when they appear randomly. and players cannot remove them without cheating. most newgrf-abilities apply to both industries and houses

[planetmaker]

Concerning the cargos of this set:

Lumber (WDPR) is defined only as piece goods type cargo while for the existing ECS type cargo it's buld AND piece goods. I'm not yet quite sure where, but this might lead to some funny consequences like bulk wagons loading the lumber. Well... if you count wood wools as a wood product too, and allow that, the bulk property might be justified, too.

Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty

[andythenorth]

Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty

I'll let FooBar answer this one - no strong feelings from me either way

[planetmaker]

Hm... I just see that it's not the only deviation from previous definitions, but another two - they were just put differently in the newgrf wiki.

Code: Select all

GOOD	Good                   0004 Express                      FIRS: Cclass 0024 Express, Piece goods
FRUT	Fruit                     0090 Bulk, refrigerated	FIRS: Cclass 0084 Express, refrigerated 
WDPR	Wood Products   0030 Bulk, piece goods 	FIRS:Lumber	0020 Piece goods

Nevertheless I'd advocate to keep the existing definitions, even though personally I prefer your (re-)definitions.

[FooBar]

Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty

I'll let FooBar answer this one - no strong feelings from me either way

Darn...
Dunno what to say to this. To be honest I have no clue what difference it makes. My first impression is: "any vehicle set should be able to handle this properly regardless of this slight deviation". But as always the matter might be a bit more complicated.

like bulk wagons loading the lumber

In that respect I say that the bulk carrier is badly coded. A hopper should never carry piece goods. Like a boxcar should never carry bulk.

IMO Wood Products 0030 Bulk, piece goods is a major flaw in the ECS scheme. Either something is bulk or something is piece goods, but not both.


All in all, we have to see how it works out. After all it's an easy change if it doesn't work out properly with major vehicle sets.

[planetmaker]

like bulk wagons loading the lumber

In that respect I say that the bulk carrier is badly coded. A hopper should never carry piece goods. Like a boxcar should never carry bulk.

Well. The original is called "Wood Products" but has the same WPRD cargoID. Wood products could also be wood pallets or alike which is a rather granular thing. Or it could be lumber as you defined it.

IMO Wood Products 0030 Bulk, piece goods is a major flaw in the ECS scheme. Either something is bulk or something is piece goods, but not both.

I disagree, as described above

But well... let's see. Though I see not much point in deviating from what's there, either - AND keeping the same name (cargo ID).

[andythenorth]

Drawing the right building for this wharf is a right pain in the arse. Should have been simple, but five versions looked wrong so far. This one's will be alright though - when it's finished....

fishing_harbour_7.png (78.36 KiB) Viewed 2680 times

Needs a simpler version of the sheds in this picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9131581@N0 ... 6/sizes/l/

[DJ Nekkid]

...
Darn...
Dunno what to say to this. To be honest I have no clue what difference it makes. My first impression is: "any vehicle set should be able to handle this properly regardless of this slight deviation". But as always the matter might be a bit more complicated.
...

Murphys law ... And as my leutenant once saied... People are stupid, if they can missunderstand, they will

[andythenorth]

Finally this harbour shed is done...

Started on a beach for small boats to land at, don't know if I can be arsed to finish it though

cheers,

Andy

[Roujin]

Uhm, won't that make the wharf only buildable on a very specific setup of terrain? And that makes it hard to appear on random maps...
I'd say leave it out or change it to the same side as the rest of the wharf "sits on"...

[andythenorth]

Uhm, won't that make the wharf only buildable on a very specific setup of terrain? And that makes it hard to appear on random maps...
I'd say leave it out or change it to the same side as the rest of the wharf "sits on"...

We can move it around in the layout. That's not traumatic to do. Is it worth having though? Partly I'm drawing it to force myself to learn how to draw rocks which I have to do for a quarry. And a beach could be reused for a resort hotel.