FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

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EXTspotter
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by EXTspotter »

You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by andythenorth »

EXTspotter wrote:You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!
Fortunately I have several tractors, but they won't be needed here. They go on a different tile (the beach tile, not drawn). The slipway will have a lift cradle (not drawn) running on the rails (drawn), hauled by a winch (not drawn).

So much to draw :rolleyes:
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by FooBar »

I like that slipway. Good work!
EXTspotter wrote:You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!
You haven't seen TopGear I suppose. As long as the transmission works boats should be able to get up there on their own ;)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by DaleStan »

EXTspotter wrote:You'll need a tractor with the slipway - boats can't beach themselves like that!
Sure they can. Wait for high tide, float on over the slipway, wait for tide to roll out.
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Re: newgrf proposal: FIRS Industry Replacement Set

Post by Zhall »

Sapphire united wrote:
cmoiromain wrote:maybe you should add cow corpses on the roof to make it look more realistic :lol:

very pretty, well done!
... and a cow in a meat grinder as in postal 2...

Now thats lul!

...........

What about the meat packing process is family friendly? They take cows, kill them, and cut them up into peices. Ok, lets shelter little johnny and tell him that the ratburgers he's eating a mcdonalds arent made from a compinations of 300 or 400 cattle from 4-5 different countries and tell him that that 100% beef is all soy, which most of it is....

Family friendly... :lol: :lol:

still a lul
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Re: newgrf proposal: FIRS Industry Replacement Set

Post by George »

andythenorth wrote:
OzTransLtd wrote:
andythenorth wrote: ... I can add information to the FIRS site, what information and format would be most useful ...
A list of FIRS industries that are planned to be located within town and city boundaries, including accepted and produced cargo types.
This raises an interesting question. Some town 'industries' from the FIRS list might be better implemented as 'houses' (please if you don't understand the distinctions from a newgrf perspective, stay out of this conversation).

However what criteria should be used to decide implementing as a 'house' or an 'industry'? What are the factors:
- town buildings may relocate as the town grows, this could disrupt player's existing routes
You can disallow house demolition by player / town
andythenorth wrote:- industries may close if not served with cargo. This could leave towns unable to accept certain types of goods.
you can disallow closure if there is no required industry nearby
andythenorth wrote:This could be solved with code. Houses do not close in the same way.
Hoses can control the number of houses of the required type / class in the town
andythenorth wrote:- it's possible to code for a certain mix of houses in a town. It's more difficult to do this with industries (there is the distance varaction among other things, but using these well is not trivial conceptually or in the implementation).
the only problem with industries is a space to build. Bank styled industries remove howses to be build
andythenorth wrote:- what else?? I haven't coded any houses before, so I am looking for input :)
Specify what you need and we'll find a way :)
andythenorth wrote:So how should this work in FIRS? Here are some examples:
- Gas Station accepts fuel oil (also food, goods). Presumably there won't be many gas stations in a typical town. Players will likely build routes with tank trucks to a RV station next to the truck station. Will be annoying if the RV station stops accepting fuel oil due to industry relocation. So seems like an industry, not a house?
a house
andythenorth wrote:- Retail Market is envisaged graphically as a market square as found in many towns worldwide. These don't often relocate, so in that respect are industry-like. However it would be desirable to control their number (one per town) and location (near the middle of town), so also house-like?
Both houses and industries can control it
andythenorth wrote:- General Store seems to be straightforward: it's a house and there can be n per town (minimum one), located wherever.
same here
andythenorth wrote:- Waste Collection Point. If needed at all, seems best to implement as a house.
yes

IMHO, every industry, that can be coded as a house should be coded that way.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by George »

Zephyris wrote:I think houses are the best (functionally) way to code some of these industries, although maybe not practically, a couple of things to think about:
* I would have a look at some existing house newgrf's code, especially the north american city set - this has some "landmark" buildings which, IIRC, cannot be demolished by the player, ai or the town so "stay still".
* Any town building "industry" will not appear on maps...
??? what do you mean by that?
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by Zephyris »

A town building can never appear as a colour coded industry on the mini-map, it would make it hard to find rare industries coded as town buildings...
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Re: newgrf proposal: FIRS Industry Replacement Set

Post by Eddi »

George wrote:
andythenorth wrote:So seems like an industry, not a house?
a house
the most important difference to consider (imho) is that industries can be funded by a player and spawn a message when they appear randomly. and players cannot remove them without cheating. most newgrf-abilities apply to both industries and houses
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by planetmaker »

Concerning the cargos of this set:

Lumber (WDPR) is defined only as piece goods type cargo while for the existing ECS type cargo it's buld AND piece goods. I'm not yet quite sure where, but this might lead to some funny consequences like bulk wagons loading the lumber. Well... if you count wood wools as a wood product too, and allow that, the bulk property might be justified, too.

Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty ;)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by andythenorth »

planetmaker wrote:Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty ;)
I'll let FooBar answer this one - no strong feelings from me either way ;)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by planetmaker »

Hm... I just see that it's not the only deviation from previous definitions, but another two - they were just put differently in the newgrf wiki.

Code: Select all

GOOD	Good                   0004 Express                      FIRS: Cclass 0024 Express, Piece goods
FRUT	Fruit                     0090 Bulk, refrigerated	FIRS: Cclass 0084 Express, refrigerated 
WDPR	Wood Products   0030 Bulk, piece goods 	FIRS:Lumber	0020 Piece goods
Nevertheless I'd advocate to keep the existing definitions, even though personally I prefer your (re-)definitions.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by FooBar »

andythenorth wrote:
planetmaker wrote:Basically what I want to argue: consider to also add the bulk property to the wood products in order to not break compatibility (and make it easier for vehicle sets). It's certainly not a biggy, but small things are which make life nasty ;)
I'll let FooBar answer this one - no strong feelings from me either way ;)
Darn...
Dunno what to say to this. To be honest I have no clue what difference it makes. My first impression is: "any vehicle set should be able to handle this properly regardless of this slight deviation". But as always the matter might be a bit more complicated.
planetmaker wrote:like bulk wagons loading the lumber
In that respect I say that the bulk carrier is badly coded. A hopper should never carry piece goods. Like a boxcar should never carry bulk.

IMO Wood Products 0030 Bulk, piece goods is a major flaw in the ECS scheme. Either something is bulk or something is piece goods, but not both.


All in all, we have to see how it works out. After all it's an easy change if it doesn't work out properly with major vehicle sets.
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by planetmaker »

FooBar wrote:
planetmaker wrote:like bulk wagons loading the lumber
In that respect I say that the bulk carrier is badly coded. A hopper should never carry piece goods. Like a boxcar should never carry bulk.
Well. The original is called "Wood Products" but has the same WPRD cargoID. Wood products could also be wood pallets or alike which is a rather granular thing. Or it could be lumber as you defined it.
IMO Wood Products 0030 Bulk, piece goods is a major flaw in the ECS scheme. Either something is bulk or something is piece goods, but not both.
I disagree, as described above :)

But well... let's see. Though I see not much point in deviating from what's there, either - AND keeping the same name (cargo ID).
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by andythenorth »

Drawing the right building for this wharf is a right pain in the arse. Should have been simple, but five versions looked wrong so far. This one's will be alright though - when it's finished....
fishing_harbour_7.png
fishing_harbour_7.png (78.36 KiB) Viewed 2675 times
Needs a simpler version of the sheds in this picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9131581@N0 ... 6/sizes/l/
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by DJ Nekkid »

FooBar wrote:...
Darn...
Dunno what to say to this. To be honest I have no clue what difference it makes. My first impression is: "any vehicle set should be able to handle this properly regardless of this slight deviation". But as always the matter might be a bit more complicated.
...
Murphys law :) ... And as my leutenant once saied... People are stupid, if they can missunderstand, they will :)
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by andythenorth »

Finally this harbour shed is done...

Started on a beach for small boats to land at, don't know if I can be arsed to finish it though ?(

cheers,

Andy
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by Roujin »

Uhm, won't that make the wharf only buildable on a very specific setup of terrain? And that makes it hard to appear on random maps...
I'd say leave it out or change it to the same side as the rest of the wharf "sits on"...
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Re: FIRS Industry Replacement Set (not yet released!)

Post by andythenorth »

Roujin wrote:Uhm, won't that make the wharf only buildable on a very specific setup of terrain? And that makes it hard to appear on random maps...
I'd say leave it out or change it to the same side as the rest of the wharf "sits on"...
We can move it around in the layout. That's not traumatic to do. Is it worth having though? Partly I'm drawing it to force myself to learn how to draw rocks which I have to do for a quarry. And a beach could be reused for a resort hotel.
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