Transport Tycoon Forums

Marshy wrote:I voted for Oz. But i really liked Snails UP loco, what set is this part of/has it been released?

I really should have written this in the blurbs. Its going to be part of Purno's 2cc set, so apologies for not including that.

You 'd better hold a second competition Dave: In 32bpp for OpenTTD. We desperately need new artwork in OpenTTD.

Simo wrote:Here is the real file that I was supposed to post:

Yeah, that´s what I call a "suspicious" palette.

athanasios wrote:You 'd better hold a second competition Dave: In 32bpp for OpenTTD.

You could easily set up something in your own graphics forum?

regards
Michael

michael blunck wrote:

Simo wrote:Here is the real file that I was supposed to post:

Yeah, that´s what I call a "suspicious" palette.

I don't get it?

What's wrong with the palette? All the colours I used are in the TTD palette, right?

A few pixels might be oddly placed, but that's to provide effect that the palette doesn't naturally offer. Surely as pixel artists you would be well aware of that technique?

Eg. TTD grass tile includes PURPLE pixels. Have you ever seen PURPLE grass? No, it's simply a shade texture because anything on the greyscale is either too bold or too bright.

michael blunck wrote:Because Simo´s picture uses 2160 unique colours, it´s clearly not "drawn" by hand but rendered from some model,

OK, I missed that. But I don't think the method has any relevance, it's the final result that counts. That's what we see in-game.

@Simo: I think your building looks good with the TTD pallette too, but maybe you should not use 'Error diffusion' when reducing the number of colors. Just a plain 'Nearest color' and a little hand-tweaking of some of the pixels seems to produce the best result IMO. Best is to have a reduced TTD pallette, with all action colors 'removed', to apply to the picture. Which drawing program are you using? Can you load and apply a .PAL file?

Official Notice

Because it is in the public interest, I feel it correct to announce that Simo's entry is under investigation for possible violation of point 4 of the official competition rules.

AndersI wrote:

michael blunck wrote:Because Simo´s picture uses 2160 unique colours, it´s clearly not "drawn" by hand but rendered from some model,

OK, I missed that. But I don't think the method has any relevance, it's the final result that counts. That's what we see in-game.

@Simo: I think your building looks good with the TTD pallette too, but maybe you should not use 'Error diffusion' when reducing the number of colors. Just a plain 'Nearest color' and a little hand-tweaking of some of the pixels seems to produce the best result IMO. Best is to have a reduced TTD pallette, with all action colors 'removed', to apply to the picture. Which drawing program are you using? Can you load and apply a .PAL file?

I'm using 'Corel PSP XI Photo' for pixel editing and skinning. But the majority of my work was done on a calculator and AutoCAD.

The .pal file is the exact same file as you would get if you take the one grfcodec provides for you.

Please disregard the above notice. After a short discussion with Simo, I can announce that no plagiarism occurred (although some skeptical people may say otherwise, I've given Simo the benefit of the major doubt I had as to whether it was just a straight copy, which he assured it wasn't, and was indeed his own work).

However one must make allowances for next month's competition; only 8bpp graphics using TTD's pallette will be allowed - REGARDLESS of whether or not this was the case with Simo's entry this month.

As you were gentlemen, as you were.

michael blunck wrote:You could easily set up something in your own graphics forum?

That would be offending for Dave I suppose...

athanasios wrote:

michael blunck wrote:You could easily set up something in your own graphics forum?

That would be offending for Dave I suppose...

On the contrary. I could RUN a competition, as long as you find me a person with moderation rights (i.e. OTTD developers) that is willing to help me. You'd have to gain support from 32bit artists first.

Im pretty sure Ben_Robbins is the second OTD gfx forum moderator and is around a bit.

@Dave

Wouldn't it be better to make competitions for the different branches? Its rather unfair that, for example, trains are competiting with buildings etc.

cu, Spaceball

Spaceball does have a point, in a way. People like Oz are inevitably going to impress with huge buildings, whereas trains and vehicles will only ever be one size - there is only so much that you can do with them.

Simo wrote: I don't get it?

Well, why don´t you simply tell us how you "produced" that picture rather than to discuss the whole thing again and again?

Don´t treat me like a fool.

Your graphics is rendered from some model and then you tried to get it into the 8-bit range. Alas, you didn´t get it into the original palette. Hence "suspicious".

All the colours I used are in the TTD palette, right?

Nobody would set up a palette consisting of 93 colours in no particular order as you want to tell us.

A few pixels might be oddly placed, but that's to provide effect that the palette doesn't naturally offer. Surely as pixel artists you would be well aware of that technique?

A few pixels? Every pixel in your picture is "oddly placed", so to speak. A characteristic distribution of pixels well known from the output of a renderer but in no way by a human.

If I were you I would stop to argue about the origin of that picture.

spaceball wrote: Wouldn't it be better to make competitions for the different branches? Its rather unfair that, for example, trains are competiting with buildings etc.

In principle you´re right, but doing so would complicate the competition to no end. In addition, you´d have the same problem with those new categories again, because then somebody would find it problematic that rather unknown vehicles would have to compete with those "famous" ones, like that "Big Boy".

I don´t think we should complicate this, just see it as a fun contest.

regards
Michael

Spaceball wrote:Wouldn't it be better to make competitions for the different branches? Its rather unfair that, for example, trains are competiting with buildings etc.

Personally I don't mind being up against all the big buildings and other non-vehicles.

michael blunck wrote:Well, why don´t you simply tell us how you "produced" that picture rather than to discuss the whole thing again and again?

I think this answers your question, Michael:

Simo wrote:I'm using 'Corel PSP XI Photo' for pixel editing and skinning. But the majority of my work was done on a calculator and AutoCAD.

I think what the concern should be, is whether artwork rendered from some sort of CAD or 3D design software with or without post processing is acceptable or not. Personally, I'm fine with renders. After all, for a render to win this competition, it would have to be of a fairly high level of quality (That's the hope, atleast).

michael blunck wrote: I don´t think we should complicate this, just see it as a fun contest.

Says he who has it in for Simo. Michael, just leave Dave to call the shots. He is the Ref here. And relax and enjoy the

michael blunck wrote:fun contest.

General comment: I dont see whats wrong with any method to produce sprites. As long as they end up in a TTD compatible format (ie, the correct palette), whats the difference?

Ben_K wrote: I dont see whats wrong with any method to produce sprites. As long as they end up in a TTD compatible format (ie, the correct palette), whats the difference?

That's not Michael's issue, Ben. He's fairly raised the point that the model that Simo entered wasn't his. If we ARE to allow renders, the whole process should use elements that are the sole ownership of the author.

Spaceball: As Michael said, I don't think we want to complicate the issue. All you have to do is draw a train that wows the pants off us all .

athanasios: If you'd like to get in touch with me about running a 32bpp artist competition, send me a PM, or get someone in charge of the 32bpp topic to.

Ah, ok then. I thought Simo said that he had made the original render too! Sorry for the mistake.

Also, that last comment was a general one - not actually aimed towards Michael.

Aegir wrote:

Simo wrote:I'm using 'Corel PSP XI Photo' for pixel editing and skinning. But the majority of my work was done on a calculator and AutoCAD.

Well, to be explicit, I really don´t think he used "a calculator and AutoCAD" to produce that very picture. At first, he didn´t admit it´s rendered, now that this seems to be the case (that´s why all that discussion about palettes), he still doesn´t reveal the origin of that picture but continues claiming it as his own work (just rendered and in the wrong palette).

I doubt that with good reasons.

Ben_K wrote:Michael, just leave Dave to call the shots.

I´ll do. It´s up to Dave. However,

I dont see whats wrong with any method to produce sprites. As long as they end up in a TTD compatible format (ie, the correct palette), whats the difference?

I dispute this.

regards
Michael