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Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 13 Dec 1999 00:00
by Aaron Severn
In article <3852BAD7.637D8...@york.ac.oook>, Stephen Down <sjd...@york.ac.oook> writes:
Better micromanagement! Have an option like "automatically replace
old vehicles" so you wouldn't have to waste most of your time on
boring crap like that towards the end of the game, it would only
warn you if you can't afford to replace a vehicle (which never
happens anyway).

You would trust the AI to do that for you?

What happens when a vehicle is obsolete or a better one becomes
available?

What happens if you want to let the vehicle expire and then replace its
service with something different?
Yeah, I thought of that stuff after I posted, so here's a better solution.

Each vehicle has a check box or something to automatically replace it when
it gets old. So you probably wouldn't want to check it for aircrafts since
there's so many models to choose from, and you might not want to check it for
other routes depending on the situation.

Every vehicle that is checked will replace itself the same way that the
AI replaces it's own vehicles, by buying the fastest one it can afford. That
way the most up-to-date vehicle will always be purchased for ships and road
vehicles, and for trains it would be slightly different since a one engine
train will always be replaced by a one engine train, and two engine trains
with two engine trains. So when two engine trains become available you'd have
to do some micromanagement there or you could just not bother to tell trains
to replace themselves.

If you want to replace a vehicle with something different after it gets old
then you could just uncheck the order to replace itself and then everything
would go along like it normally does in TT.

The big benefit is that when you have close to 80 road vehicles late in the
game all getting old every 15 years and all simply being replaced with the
most up-to-date type of vehicles you wouldn't have to devote a few months
every year to replace them. Replacing vehicles is very boring and doesn't
test your skill in any serious way, so it shouldn't be such a big part of
the game.
-Aaron

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 13 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Aaron Severn schrieb in Nachricht <833a83$5a...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca>...
In article <3852BAD7.637D8...@york.ac.oook>, Stephen Down
sjd...@york.ac.oook> writes:
...
Each vehicle has a check box or something to automatically replace it when
it gets old. So you probably wouldn't want to check it for aircrafts since
there's so many models to choose from, and you might not want to check it
for
other routes depending on the situation.

Every vehicle that is checked will replace itself the same way that the
AI replaces it's own vehicles,
This idea is magnificient! I will implement this.
Replacing vehicles is very boring and doesn't
test your skill in any serious way, so it shouldn't be such a big part of
the game.
This is very true...

Peter

--
Die 3. Dimension der Strategiespiele:
http://www.digitalprojects.com/way-x

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 13 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Stephen Down <sjd...@york.ac.oook> wrote in message
news:3852BAD7.637D820C@york.ac.oook...
You would trust the AI to do that for you?
Yep..(Simcity 2000)
What happens when a vehicle is obsolete or a better one becomes
available?
You would override it.....Or maybe the AI would notify you when it comes
time...and gives you the choice of upgrading (Or whatever)
What happens if you want to let the vehicle expire and then replace its
service with something different?
Again......A new tech 'flag'; would cause the AI to quiery you at the time
or renewal
No thanks.
Yes please!!
--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 13 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Stephen Down <sjd...@york.ac.oook> wrote in message
news:3852C1A8.ACCB78AB@york.ac.oook...
This would mean they would need to be serviced less frequently, as
obviously you wouldn't be able to have as many depots if they were that
large. It would give more incentive to get people away from the train
obsession!
Yeah...But the airports would be HUMONGUS!!!
And industries.......And if you BUILD one you should have FULL
abilities...In otherwords the ability to close it down or reduce
it or increase production...(At a price of course!)
That sounds good. Or how about exclusive transport TO a/o FROM the
industry?
Well..If it belongs to you then it stands to reason......
Maybe you could lease out contracts to other firms to ship out if you only
can afford to ship in??
* No cargo of any type will appear in your station until you have
sent a vehicle there to collect that cargo.
Or you set flags?
¿Qué? What are "flags" in this context?
Ermm..Ok you plan to use that area to build a steel mill......In about 20
years or whatever....So you start to stockpile the stuff.......At the
station you would choose an item from a list of possabilities and it would
automatically start the process.......Thats what I meant by a 'flag'
You are going to use coal in a month or so .....So you start
stockpileing it...
Oh...And the ability to stockpile.....
Simple. Don't transport any of it away.
Yes but some will go missing if you use TTDLX......And after a while it
stops appearing at your station altogether......I suppose this would require
a whole new type of building to attach to your station...The Warehouse...And
you could buy different sizes...(RT2 anyone!?)
The occasional advert campaign to keep your ratings high. (Although this
totally OT if we're talking about Peter's 3DTT)
Why? I thought we are putting ideas of what we would LIKE to see....If Peter
likes it he can use it...If not...Fine....B-)
* Taxis.
It should be an AI run thing....It would be too hard to do the
micromanagment...
I was not intending on micromanagement. What I envisaged was this ...
... when a train or aeroplane or whatever arrives, a certain percentage
of passengers could choose to catch a taxi if there is a taxi rank
associated with the station. They will choose random destinations
throughout the city. All you have to do is to install the taxi rank and
buy the taxis: they will then wait at the rank until passengers arrive,
then take them home and go back to the rank.
Yes which would be run by the AI (The movement of the populace)
Unless you specify routes then it would be done on auto by the AI
(Pathfinding with buses is an arse in TTDLX)
* Road vehicles should *occasionally* crash for no apparent reason.
Option to turn this off.
Yes. Possibly have various 'Disaster On/Off' options for all the
different types of disasters, crises and minor annoyances that could
happen.
Erm...Maybe two levels of Disasters?
Low grade (and damage) E.G. Breakdowns and traffic jams and such *Pains*
Maybe rail track/train problems that just make things slow down, such as
train tracks that have worn out...?

High Grade (REAL damage, loss of money types) Factory explosions, meltdowns
for powerplants, train crashes (Ratings)
Electrified railway lines
Or the ability to pay £? to get it done..Rather than ripping it
up and relaying it.
What I was thinking was that you could add an overhead catenary to any
bit of track without ripping it up. AFAIK, the majority of electric
railways in the world use overhead power rather than a live rail.
Ok...Quick question......Would monorail/Maglev use the same style of
track/cableing?
Or would it ALL have to be replaced?
* Special track should be needed for running at high speed.
Or just upgrading old tracks at a price....They DO wear out you know!
Yes; I did say a bit later that tracks would wear out.
Oh..Sorry! B-/
* First class travel for passengers.
Only at larger towns later in game......R&D again?
No, from the start.
First class travel has been around for as long as trains, and a lot
longer than aeroplanes. If anything, it was a more important part of
early railways than it is now.
Are we talking Orient Express here?
I would like it to be possible to run services including first-class
from anywhere ~ but as I said, only a small percentage of the passengers
would travel f-c, so it would not be worthwhile to include f-c on
low-volume routes, ie, from small villages.
Hmm....Maybe a cheaper style...Club?
* Greater choice of DMU and EMU trains.
Sorry what ane DMU and EMU?
Advantages over traditional trains:
~ Cheaper to run, and more efficient.
~ No loss-of-power problems on long trains.
~ More flexible than loco-hauled trains.
The why would we have Locos?
You'll have to forgive the ignorance here! B-(
* At all times trams should be faster and have greater
capacity than buses, to make them worthwhile.
Cheaper?
No. If trams were all that, AND cheaper than buses, what would be the
point in buses?!
Ability to get to other parts of cities?
I live in Manchester that now has Trams installed........And what a waste
for people like me. B-(
I live about 20 mins from the city center.....And the tram won't be coming
to my area because it wouldn't be 'economical' B-(
IRL, trams are a LOT more expensive than buses, particularly if you are
including the costs of infrastructure.
Yeah but they haul a lot of people quicker that a bus would.....
And its a larger initial cost but surley they would haul back money?
* <stuff about underground tunnels
Nope...If YOU paid for it its yours. BUT you may sell it off.
OK, so long as you can offer to buy one from another company.
As in the offer of advance usage of vehicles in TTDLX? Yep....
Ok....But only cos its you!
You're too kind :-)
I know...Its one of my bigger faults!!! B-P
Ok.....Now my tuppenceworth.
No, it's worth a lot more than tuppence.
OK..Treppence!
The ability to turn off certain aspects.....Like the damn money
pop up.......AARGH...I swear I've borrowed more money by mistake
than to buy things.
Yes, it is annoying. But it does help me keep track of time.
Why?.....When its dark you go to bed......
When your Wife/Girlfriend shouts/hurls things at you its time to do Tea!!
Whats you problem? B-)
It takes longer to build things.....It can take a while for the grass to
grow but a damn long train track is laid in seconds...
You mean have a 'build queue' à la Civ? (But with items 'building'
concurrently?).
Erm...Not sure.....Never played Civ. But I mean just like Age of
Empires......Or just like in the city....It takes about 3 months to build an
office block.
I agree it is unrealistic that entire roads and lines can be laid within a
month no matter how
much landscaping they involve, and vehicles are there on demand
Well surly the company wouldn't build them only on demand.......Do they?


--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 13 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:8325es$ic$3@news07.btx.dtag.de...
5 years of TT's terrible pathfinding have twisted your mind so you can't
get
rid of thinking about tricks to neutralize it. ;-)
Of course a new TT will have a new PF, too.
THANK GOD!!!! B-)

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Pete Humble
Quoth "Peter J. Dobrovka" <dobro...@t-online.de> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:
What happens if you want to let the vehicle expire and then replace its
service with something different?


Yes, this should not be decided by AI. But the way RRT and RRT2 did it was
very comfortable, wasn't it?
Can you explain what you mean please?
--
___ __o Pete Humble, JRI Europe, Ltd
_ \<,_ Email: peet AT dircon DOT co DOT uk
(_)/ (_) Any resemblance between the views expressed here
============= and those of my employers is pure coincidence.

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Pete Humble schrieb in Nachricht
<54bc5s8tcmho72j05nfhb1psirdr9kv...@4ax.com>...
Quoth "Peter J. Dobrovka" <dobro...@t-online.de> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:

What happens if you want to let the vehicle expire and then replace its
service with something different?

Yes, this should not be decided by AI. But the way RRT and RRT2 did it was
very comfortable, wasn't it?
Can you explain what you mean please?
There was a REPLACE button in the engine list. (Also a RETIRE button...)
There was no need to send the train into the next depot and drag'n'drop it
away and clicking "new engine". It was only ONE click instead of 5 actions
to get here.

Peter

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Trikky schrieb in Nachricht <835525$30...@gxsn.com>...
Stephen Down <sjd...@york.ac.oook> wrote in message
news:3852C1A8.ACCB78AB@york.ac.oook...
This would mean they would need to be serviced less frequently, as
obviously you wouldn't be able to have as many depots if they were that
large. It would give more incentive to get people away from the train
obsession!

Yeah...But the airports would be HUMONGUS!!!
?? Would be what??
* No cargo of any type will appear in your station until you have
sent a vehicle there to collect that cargo.
Or you set flags?
¿Qué? What are "flags" in this context?

Ermm..Ok you plan to use that area to build a steel mill......In about 20
years or whatever....So you start to stockpile the stuff.......At the
station you would choose an item from a list of possabilities and it would
automatically start the process.......Thats what I meant by a 'flag'
Who plans 20 years ahead? And stockpile what stuff? The building material?
I think I did not understand this process.
You are going to use coal in a month or so .....So you start
stockpileing it...
Oh...And the ability to stockpile.....
Simple. Don't transport any of it away.

Yes but some will go missing if you use TTDLX......And after a while it
stops appearing at your station altogether......I suppose this would
require
a whole new type of building to attach to your station...The
Warehouse...And you could buy different sizes...(RT2 anyone!?)
The warehouse of RRT2 decreases the penalty for pickup-delays. This concept
we will keep.

In 3DTT the industries have a built-in warehouse for raw material and
products. They also have built-in stations for trains and lorries
(comparable to the offshore platforms in TT). You will have to connect your
RR or roads directly to the industry's building. Maybe the industry lays the
tracks itself to you, this has to be discussed because of concurrency. The
industry will provide full-loaded cars that will roll to the next cargo
station where cars from different industries are combined with an engine to
a train. This sounds like a b**** of a micromanagement but it will be only
automatted animation. The result is appearing cars with cargo and
destination you have to haul. I will have to post the transport and economy
system someday...
So there is no need for a warehouse in your stations. - It was not intended
to stockpile something for future purpose. If you you have a steel mill that
needs new coal next month it has its own buffer (warehouse) to store.
But if you have a good argument maybe you can convince me.
The occasional advert campaign to keep your ratings high. (Although this
totally OT if we're talking about Peter's 3DTT)

Why? I thought we are putting ideas of what we would LIKE to see....If
Peter likes it he can use it...If not...Fine....B-)
Ratings and advertisment will play an important role in 3DTT, especially in
the situation of concurrency.
In 3DTT you have contracts with the industries to service them. They give
you a fixed amount of cargo to haul every month in a certain time. If you
can do the job for a while without problems the industries will probably
increase their output (depending on whether the consuming industries accept
this higher output) and this continues until the point you fail to haul
something. Then industry decreases output - or it asks another transport
company for service. With an advert campaign you can improve your ratings,
but if you lie (you can't provide the promised capacity) this will damage
your reputation.
* Taxis.
It should be an AI run thing....It would be too hard to do the

micromanagment...
I was not intending on micromanagement. What I envisaged was this ...
... when a train or aeroplane or whatever arrives, a certain percentage
of passengers could choose to catch a taxi if there is a taxi rank
associated with the station. They will choose random destinations
throughout the city. All you have to do is to install the taxi rank and
buy the taxis: they will then wait at the rank until passengers arrive,
then take them home and go back to the rank.

Yes which would be run by the AI (The movement of the populace)
Unless you specify routes then it would be done on auto by the AI
(Pathfinding with buses is an arse in TTDLX)
Oh yes, taxis... - this might be a good feature. They would not have a
station list but a base for waiting. When finished a job they would go back
to their base.
Electrified railway lines
Or the ability to pay £? to get it done..Rather than ripping it
up and relaying it.
What I was thinking was that you could add an overhead catenary to any
bit of track without ripping it up. AFAIK, the majority of electric
railways in the world use overhead power rather than a live rail.

Ok...Quick question......Would monorail/Maglev use the same style of
track/cableing?
Or would it ALL have to be replaced?
The technology of monorail/maglev is completely different. It has no
overhead power lines, the power is in the track.
Isn't it funny that TT has a monorail and a maglev being different types of
trains? In reality the maglev is a monorail.
As I heard unfortunately the German monorail/maglev is dead. They put in a
lot of money for development and built a 30 km test track but it is too loud
and too expensive at 400 km/h. And if running only 300 km/h there is no much
benefit for the passengers because here in Germany there are no long
distances. And no other country wants to buy this thing from us, so
construction is discontinued.
* Special track should be needed for running at high speed.
Or just upgrading old tracks at a price....They DO wear out you know!
Yes; I did say a bit later that tracks would wear out.

Oh..Sorry! B-/
I find it a bit of redundant micromanagement to replace old tracks with
newer ones. In reality you have to maintain the track anyway, so it is
replaced after a while anyway.
* Greater choice of DMU and EMU trains.
Sorry what ane DMU and EMU?
Advantages over traditional trains:
~ Cheaper to run, and more efficient.
~ No loss-of-power problems on long trains.
~ More flexible than loco-hauled trains.

The why would we have Locos?
You'll have to forgive the ignorance here! B-(
Yepp, this needs an explanation. I don't know it either, I would have to
consult our train expert.
* At all times trams should be faster and have greater
capacity than buses, to make them worthwhile.
Cheaper?
No. If trams were all that, AND cheaper than buses, what would be the
point in buses?!

Ability to get to other parts of cities?
You can't lay tracks everywhere. This is too expensive and impossible in
narrow curved streets.
I don't think that trams are really cheaper than buses. Maybe the running
but not the construction.
I live in Manchester that now has Trams installed........And what a waste
for people like me. B-(
I live about 20 mins from the city center.....And the tram won't be coming
to my area because it wouldn't be 'economical' B-(
Would you pay for it if you have only 20 minutes?
It takes longer to build things.....It can take a while for the grass
to
grow but a damn long train track is laid in seconds...
You mean have a 'build queue' à la Civ? (But with items 'building'
concurrently?).

Erm...Not sure.....Never played Civ.
Heeeey! Is this serious? One of the best and most popular games ever?
But I mean just like Age of
Empires......Or just like in the city....It takes about 3 months to build
an
office block.
In 3DTT final version you will construct your tracks as "ghosts" and if
satisfied you click a button for building. And this will take a bit of time.
I agree it is unrealistic that entire roads and lines can be laid within
a
month no matter how
much landscaping they involve, and vehicles are there on demand

Well surly the company wouldn't build them only on demand.......Do they?
In the case of trains - of course! Road vehicles - maybe.

Peter

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Pete Humble
Quoth "Peter J. Dobrovka" <dobro...@t-online.de> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:
Pete Humble schrieb in Nachricht
54bc5s8tcmho72j05nfhb1psirdr9kv...@4ax.com>...
Quoth "Peter J. Dobrovka" <dobro...@t-online.de> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:

What happens if you want to let the vehicle expire and then replace its
service with something different?

Yes, this should not be decided by AI. But the way RRT and RRT2 did it was
very comfortable, wasn't it?
Can you explain what you mean please?


There was a REPLACE button in the engine list. (Also a RETIRE button...)
There was no need to send the train into the next depot and drag'n'drop it
away and clicking "new engine". It was only ONE click instead of 5 actions
to get here.

Yes, I remember now - a very good idea. If you want to be picky, you could
tell it to replace (or retire) the train and it would send it to the nearest
depot to do what you requested. A definite improvement, methinks.
--
___ __o Pete Humble, JRI Europe, Ltd
_ \<,_ Email: peet AT dircon DOT co DOT uk
(_)/ (_) Any resemblance between the views expressed here
============= and those of my employers is pure coincidence.

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Graham Cox
You don't ask much, do you?

* Bus stops!
~ Can be placed on any straight road.
~ Smaller catchment area to bus stations but cheaper to place.
~ You can not include bus stops in the 'orders', but a bus will
always stop if it passes one. (A coach OTOH wouldn't)
I don't think that not being able to set orders for these will work.
Normally my buses get into a routine, and stick to it. If the bus stop
is off this routine it will never get visited, and thus get very low
ratings. Also, IRL bus stops are part of the bus's schedule, so why
not in TT
* Intelligent level crossings. Where two or more adjacent tracks
cross a road, this should be treated as ONE level crossing.
Trains should set the bells going from one tile further away
for every additional track on the crossing (ie, on a 4-track
crossing, a train 4 tiles away would stop road vehicles from
crossing).
Having the level crossing change earlier when a faster train is
approaching it would also be useful. I occasionally need to use Level
crossings, and sometimes by the time the bells have gone off it's too
late for the bus to survive.
* Trains should take longer to slow down and stop, either on approach
to a station, a red signal or when you tell them to Stop! ... makes
it more realistic.
~ This would mean that trains would occasionally pass a red signal
- if this happens, a warning message should appear, "Signal
passed at danger near ~~~ville", and then you would have to do
your best to avoid a collision.
~ Ripping up track too close to a train (ie, it does not have time
to stop) would result in a derailment or crash.

* Occasionally, signals or level crossings might fail (and stick at
either green or red); again this would bring up a warning message
so you could replace them.

These two seem a bit dangerous to me. What would you do if you had two
signels fail at the same time, on different edges of the map? Or If a
train skipped a signel while your repairing another signel, or so on.
It's a good idea, but it would make the game incredably difficult to
play


--
Graham Cox
c...@grahama99.freeserve.co.uk.antispam
Remove antispam, you get the idea
ICQ# 24532124

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:835ucj$lut$1@news04.btx.dtag.de...
Yeah...But the airports would be HUMONGUS!!!
?? Would be what??
Very, very BIG!
Who plans 20 years ahead? And stockpile what stuff? The building material?
I think I did not understand this process.
Well...What I meant was because it would take time to build a station and
all the tracking (I take it you NOT going to have the instant construction
for buildings?)
So it would be a good idea to build a warehouse BEFORE anything else.......
I will have to post the transport and economy system someday...
i would like to see this...
So there is no need for a warehouse in your stations. - It was not
intended
to stockpile something for future purpose. If you you have a steel mill
that
needs new coal next month it has its own buffer (warehouse) to store.
But if you have a good argument maybe you can convince me.
Oh....I didn't think that the industry would have its own warehouse that YOU
could use.....
In 3DTT you have contracts with the industries to service them. They give
you a fixed amount of cargo to haul every month in a certain time. If you
can do the job for a while without problems the industries will probably
increase their output (depending on whether the consuming industries
accept
this higher output) and this continues until the point you fail to haul
something. Then industry decreases output - or it asks another transport
company for service. With an advert campaign you can improve your ratings,
but if you lie (you can't provide the promised capacity) this will damage
your reputation.
THIS is what I would have thought would be a ratings war!!!!
* Taxis.
SNIP
Yes which would be run by the AI (The movement of the populace)
Unless you specify routes then it would be done on auto by the AI
(Pathfinding with buses is an arse in TTDLX)
Oh yes, taxis... - this might be a good feature. They would not have a
station list but a base for waiting. When finished a job they would go
back
to their base.
Would you have to instruct the AI as to how many taxis you would want and
what type and let it go?
Electrified railway lines
Ok...Quick question......Would monorail/Maglev use the same style of
track/cableing?
Or would it ALL have to be replaced?
The technology of monorail/maglev is completely different. It has no
overhead power lines, the power is in the track.
Isn't it funny that TT has a monorail and a maglev being different types
of
trains? In reality the maglev is a monorail.
Thought so....Both use magnetx to propel the train down the track....
As I heard unfortunately the German monorail/maglev is dead. They put in a
lot of money for development and built a 30 km test track but it is too
loud
and too expensive at 400 km/h. And if running only 300 km/h there is no
much
benefit for the passengers because here in Germany there are no long
distances. And no other country wants to buy this thing from us, so
construction is discontinued.
Yes but arn't the Japanese working on the same tech?
* Special track should be needed for running at high speed.
Or just upgrading old tracks at a price....They DO wear out you know!
I find it a bit of redundant micromanagement to replace old tracks with
newer ones. In reality you have to maintain the track anyway, so it is
replaced after a while anyway.
Yes but maintainance is one thing.....Replacement is another.....
The why would we have Locos?
You'll have to forgive the ignorance here! B-(
Yepp, this needs an explanation. I don't know it either, I would have to
consult our train expert.
Right....Come on guys!!!
I live in Manchester that now has Trams installed........And what a waste
for people like me. B-(
I live about 20 mins from the city center.....And the tram won't be
coming
to my area because it wouldn't be 'economical' B-(
Would you pay for it if you have only 20 minutes?
I don't pay for buses either...Its actually easier and cheaper to take my
car into town center..(Yes even WITH 'Two Jags' Presscott on my back about
the fees!!)
You mean have a 'build queue' à la Civ? (But with items 'building'
concurrently?).
Erm...Not sure.....Never played Civ.
Heeeey! Is this serious? One of the best and most popular games ever?
Nah...it looked kack and so i didn't bother with it
But I mean just like Age of Empires......Or just like in the city....It
takes about 3 months to
build an office block.
In 3DTT final version you will construct your tracks as "ghosts" and if
satisfied you click a button for building. And this will take a bit of
time.
YAY!
I agree it is unrealistic that entire roads and lines can be laid
within
a month no matter how much landscaping they involve, and vehicles are
there on demand
Well surly the company wouldn't build them only on demand.......Do they?
In the case of trains - of course!
Why 'of course'?
Road vehicles - maybe.
I don't understyand this....If I want to buy 20 buses for a company I
wouldn't want to wait X nu
--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.ukmber of years until they are made......Or an I
being unrealistic here? B-)

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 14 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Trikky schrieb in Nachricht <836505$d9...@gxsn.com>...
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:835ucj$lut$1@news04.btx.dtag.de...
Who plans 20 years ahead? And stockpile what stuff? The building
material?
I think I did not understand this process.

Well...What I meant was because it would take time to build a station and
all the tracking (I take it you NOT going to have the instant construction
for buildings?)
So it would be a good idea to build a warehouse BEFORE anything else.......
And what for? I still don't understand...
I will have to post the transport and economy system someday...

i would like to see this...

So there is no need for a warehouse in your stations. - It was not

intended to stockpile something for future purpose. If you you have
a steel mill that
needs new coal next month it has its own buffer (warehouse) to store.
But if you have a good argument maybe you can convince me.

Oh....I didn't think that the industry would have its own warehouse that
YOU
could use.....
"Use"?
You can buy industry then it is yours. Of course this will be limited
because of antitrust things, hehe.
* Taxis.
Would you have to instruct the AI as to how many taxis you would want and
what type and let it go?
Because this idea of taxis is very new to me I did not think much about it
yet.

[Buses]
Would you pay for it if you have only 20 minutes?

I don't pay for buses either...Its actually easier and cheaper to take my
car into town center..(Yes even WITH 'Two Jags' Presscott on my back about
the fees!!)
Don't you have to pay for parking the car in town center?
In 3DTT final version you will construct your tracks as "ghosts" and if
satisfied you click a button for building. And this will take a bit of

time.

YAY!
Yay? Is this good or bad?
Well surly the company wouldn't build them only on demand.......Do they?
In the case of trains - of course!

Why 'of course'?
Because you normally do not buy train engines in the shopping mall. What
shall the company do with engines they can't sell?
Road vehicles - maybe.

I don't understyand this....If I want to buy 20 buses for a company I
wouldn't want to wait X number of years until they are made......Or an I
being unrealistic here? B-)
This does not take this time. If you order 20 buses I estimate about 20
weeks, one bus weekly.

Even if you buy a normal car you often have to wait for it 2 or 3 weeks.
They construct it according to your wishes: color and extras. Of course they
are constructing all the time and do not begin to work after your order. But
if your car is the next in their list they apply your wishes to the actual
model.

Peter

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 15 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:836d90$ncq$2@news07.btx.dtag.de...
Well...What I meant was because it would take time to build a station and
all the tracking (I take it you NOT going to have the instant
construction
for buildings?)
So it would be a good idea to build a warehouse BEFORE anything
else.......
And what for? I still don't understand...
Sop when your train turns up to transport the stuff away you don't have to
wait for the train to be fully loaded.
Oh....I didn't think that the industry would have its own warehouse that
YOU
could use.....
"Use"?
Ok...The industry creates the stuff, puts it into the warehouse.....THEN
your train arrives and loads up. And leaves with a full load *immediatley*
for its destination.
Then, when it returns, the warehouse probably still has goods in it.
You can buy industry then it is yours. Of course this will be limited
because of antitrust things, hehe.
Antitrust?
Why would the industry not trust you?
If you have a contract to shift x number of goods in x time?
[Buses]
Would you pay for it if you have only 20 minutes?
I don't pay for buses either...Its actually easier and cheaper to take my
car into town center..(Yes even WITH 'Two Jags' Presscott on my back
about
the fees!!)
Don't you have to pay for parking the car in town center?
Yes.....But for me to pay for parking in the city center is actually CHEAPER
for me than using the bus.
For me to park in the city center for 3 hours is about £3
To get the bus it will cost me £1 each way.
PLUS...I have a 15 month old child. And to get her and the buggy and such is
just too much hassle.

And taxis are a complete ripoff....£3 each way .B-(

<Steps Off Soapbox>
YAY!
Yay? Is this good or bad?
Very good! (Sorry language problems on my end again!!!)
Why 'of course'?
Because you normally do not buy train engines in the shopping mall. What
shall the company do with engines they can't sell?
Surly they would hold a certain amount in stock. at any one time?
Road vehicles - maybe.
I don't understyand this....If I want to buy 20 buses for a company I
wouldn't want to wait X number of years until they are made......Or an I
being unrealistic here? B-)
This does not take this time. If you order 20 buses I estimate about 20
weeks, one bus weekly.
Am I the only one that finds this bad company practice?
Even if you buy a normal car you often have to wait for it 2 or 3 weeks.
They construct it according to your wishes: color and extras. Of course
they
are constructing all the time and do not begin to work after your order.
But if your car is the next in their list they apply your wishes to the
actual model.
Sorry, but most of the people that I know of that have bought 'brand new'
cars have driven it straight from the shop floor (Once the road tax and
insurance has been sorted out.)

When my dad baought his Ford Mondeo, the only reason that he couldn't drive
it home that day was that he hadn't sorted out his insurance yet.

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 15 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Trikky schrieb in Nachricht <838lru$an...@gxsn.com>...
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:836d90$ncq$2@news07.btx.dtag.de...
...
Ok...The industry creates the stuff, puts it into the warehouse.....THEN
your train arrives and loads up. And leaves with a full load *immediatley*
for its destination.
Then, when it returns, the warehouse probably still has goods in it.
I remember we discussed this in the team, but if the player gets loaded cars
this is obsolete. This is still available for passengers and mail but these
warehouses are called post office and hotel, hehe.
You can buy industry then it is yours. Of course this will be limited
because of antitrust things, hehe.

Antitrust?
Why would the industry not trust you?
If you have a contract to shift x number of goods in x time?
Maybe I used the wrong word. In many countries the government is forbidding
big companys to buy/control too much little companies. In USA the AT&T
telephone company was such a case: It was very big and controlled many
businesses which had nothing to do with telephone. So AT&T was split into
several parts by law.

...
Because you normally do not buy train engines in the shopping mall. What
shall the company do with engines they can't sell?

Surly they would hold a certain amount in stock. at any one time?
Not really. Only if they would produce very few different models. You will
make your own experiences in 3DTT, you can build your own factory and you
can even play the role of a pure engine builder and seller.

...
Sorry, but most of the people that I know of that have bought 'brand new'
cars have driven it straight from the shop floor (Once the road tax and
insurance has been sorted out.)

When my dad baought his Ford Mondeo, the only reason that he couldn't drive
it home that day was that he hadn't sorted out his insurance yet.
Yes, times do change. The cars become more and more standardized and more
and more people buy cars and more and more people buy them by shopping.
A car company nowadays can calculate that they will sell about 1200 red Ford
Modeo's next month so they produce in advance and stockpile it in the shop.
Cars have got a continuous flow of producing and consuming.
Try this with locomotives or even oil tankers and you will be ruined soon.
There is no flow of this kind. You can compare this with building a house.
An architect builds you a house if you order it, he does not build houses
and waits for customers to buy.

Peter

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 15 Dec 1999 00:00
by Stephen Down
Aaron Severn wrote:
Each vehicle has a check box or something to automatically replace
it when it gets old. So you probably wouldn't want to check it for
aircrafts since there's so many models to choose from, and you might
not want to check it for other routes depending on the situation.
I'd say that, particularly in the early days, the same is true for
trains.
Every vehicle that is checked will replace itself the same way that
the AI replaces it's own vehicles, by buying the fastest one it can
afford. That way the most up-to-date vehicle will always be
purchased for ships and road vehicles, and for trains it would be
slightly different since a one engine train will always be replaced
by a one engine train, and two engine trains with two engine trains.
That doesn't always work for trains, though. You might well want a train
with much more horsepower even if it is not the fastest. You might well
want a more reliable train even if it is not the fastest.

(And if 'electrified track' comes into play, that's more complications)
So when two engine trains become available you'd have to do some
micromanagement there or you could just not bother to tell trains
to replace themselves.
That's then a lot of work. ATM, you get warning messages telling you
which of your trains need replacing.
As I understand your idea, a player would have to go through his entire
list of trains as soon as (or just before) double-header (and in
particular DMU) trains become available to decide which of the old type
s/he would like to replace with the new type. If you have quite a lot of
trains (particularly if you have lots of different routes with the same
cargo) and you haven't named your trains, this is going to take ages,
and then you still have to replace them manually.

--
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Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 15 Dec 1999 00:00
by Stephen Down
Trikky wrote:
Yeah...But the airports would be HUMONGUS!!!
Maybe have a different system for airports ...
Well..If it belongs to you then it stands to reason......
Maybe you could lease out contracts to other firms to ship out
if you only can afford to ship in??
In TTDx you can fund the construction of an industry but you then have
no control over it at all.
Ok...Quick question......Would monorail/Maglev use the same style of
track/cableing?
Or would it ALL have to be replaced?
I think the easiest thing would be to replace it all. Since monorail and
maglev use a totally different power supply, and only use electric
trains, it would be most sensible if they came with the power built in.
Are we talking Orient Express here?
No, but I'm sure just about all train services a hundred years ago had
first class compartments.
The why would we have Locos?
You'll have to forgive the ignorance here! B-(
Multiple-unit trains are not so good for carrying freight. They are also
not so good at high speed (One reason for this is that, ATM, passengers
are not allowed to travel in the leading car at more than 100mph).

In Britain, there are hardly any commercial railways that use locos to
haul slow passenger trains: they are used for freight and for high speed
(OK, that sounds silly if you've travelled by train in France or
Germany) passenger services.
Ability to get to other parts of cities?
I live in Manchester that now has Trams installed........And what a
waste for people like me. B-(
I live about 20 mins from the city center.....And the tram won't be
coming to my area because it wouldn't be 'economical' B-(
Sorry, I think I may have misunderstood you.

My original suggestion was that the trams would be much more effective
than buses at transporting passengers, and would bring in more money.
You then replied with "And cheaper?", which I took to mean that trams
would be cheaper to build a/o run than buses. I don't think they should,
since this is clearly not what happens in real life. Trams should be
more expensive to build and run than buses, (as IRL) but should
transport people more efficiently than buses (as IRL?)
Yeah but they haul a lot of people quicker that a bus would.....
And its a larger initial cost but surely they would haul back money?
That's the general idea ... whether it works or not depends on how good
your system is!
Why?.....When its dark you go to bed......
It gets dark by 4 o'clock right ATM ... I have lectures that start after
that, so going to bed then wouldn't be a good plan!
When your Wife/Girlfriend shouts/hurls things at you its time to
do Tea!!
Don't have a wife or girlfriend.
Whats you problem? B-)
I meant more keep track of TT time ... particularly if I'm just letting
things 'tick over' to bring some money in.
Well surely the company wouldn't build them only on demand...Do they?
I know that for railway stock (in Britain ATM), it takes well over a
year (if not MUCH longer) between placing an order for stock and having
them up and running. I don't know how things work for road vehicles.

--
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Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 15 Dec 1999 00:00
by Stephen Down
Graham Cox wrote:
You don't ask much, do you?
:-)
I don't think that not being able to set orders for these will
work. Normally my buses get into a routine, and stick to it.
If the bus stop is off this routine it will never get visited,
and thus get very low ratings. Also, IRL bus stops are part of
the bus's schedule, so why not in TT
In TTO and TTDx (although not in 3DTT, so these comments don't really
apply that well to Peter's game), you only have to set the end (or
certain important) destinations, and the train will stop at any other
stations it encounters along the way unless you explicitly tell it not
to. I would like to see the same sort of thing happen for buses.

If you have a look at your city and see that buses run along particular
roads but not others, you'd have to be a bit doolally to put a bus stop
on a road that never got a bus!

I think if you have to specify EVERY stop either for a train or a bus
then it makes the game tedious if you are trying to be realistic.
These two seem a bit dangerous to me. What would you do if you had
two signals fail at the same time, on different edges of the map?
Pause the game while you zoom to one then the other :-)

I wasn't envisaging failures taking place that often, only occasionally
(maybe once every year or two) ~ although probably proportional to the
number of signals you have.
Or if a train skipped a signal while your repairing another
signal, or so on. It's a good idea, but it would make the game
incredibly difficult to play
That's the idea! I find that once you've got more than about 20 trains
going, there is very little in the way of challenge left. I'd like to
see some brought back.

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Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 16 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:838tuu$5ne$1@news05.btx.dtag.de...
Why would the industry not trust you?
If you have a contract to shift x number of goods in x time?
Maybe I used the wrong word. In many countries the government is
forbidding
big companys to buy/control too much little companies. In USA the AT&T
telephone company was such a case: It was very big and controlled many
businesses which had nothing to do with telephone. So AT&T was split into
several parts by law.
Ah...The infamous 'Monopolies and merges commission.........What a loverly
bunch of people.....B-)
I see they are trying to break up Microsft for the same reason.
Because you normally do not buy train engines in the shopping mall.
What
shall the company do with engines they can't sell?
Surly they would hold a certain amount in stock. at any one time?
Not really. Only if they would produce very few different models. You will
make your own experiences in 3DTT, you can build your own factory and you
can even play the role of a pure engine builder and seller.
This would be good......Could you operate two companies at the same time?
One doing the engine buying and selling...
The other doing the transport side?

<Snip>
Yes, times do change. The cars become more and more standardized and more
and more people buy cars and more and more people buy them by shopping.
A car company nowadays can calculate that they will sell about 1200 red
Ford
Modeo's next month so they produce in advance and stockpile it in the
shop.
This is whjat they did with most things! (Ah...Ignorance is bliss!!)
Cars have got a continuous flow of producing and consuming.
Yeah...Espesially with my dads form of driving!!!!
Try this with locomotives or even oil tankers and you will be ruined soon.
There is no flow of this kind.
Hmmm......I would have thought the concept would have been universal..
You can compare this with building a house.
An architect builds you a house if you order it, he does not build houses
and waits for customers to buy.
I get he gist now!!!! B-)

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 16 Dec 1999 00:00
by Trikky
Stephen Down <sjd...@york.ac.oook> wrote in message
news:3857B2FE.E0593F62@york.ac.oook...
Yeah...But the airports would be HUMONGUS!!!
Maybe have a different system for airports ...
It would have to be.......Or maybe have a big central one?
Well..If it belongs to you then it stands to reason......
Maybe you could lease out contracts to other firms to ship out
if you only can afford to ship in??
In TTDx you can fund the construction of an industry but you then have
no control over it at all.
I know....That is the problem......B-(
Or would it ALL have to be replaced?
I think the easiest thing would be to replace it all. Since monorail and
maglev use a totally different power supply, and only use electric
trains, it would be most sensible if they came with the power built in.
Hmm.....Pity...
Are we talking Orient Express here?
No, but I'm sure just about all train services a hundred years ago had
first class compartments.
I only picked that one as it was the best know train that I could think of!!
Multiple-unit trains are not so good for carrying freight. They are also
not so good at high speed (One reason for this is that, ATM, passengers
are not allowed to travel in the leading car at more than 100mph).
Why?
I think we got over the problem-with-air-pressure-stopping-you-breath with
Mr Stephenson and his Rocket!!
In Britain, there are hardly any commercial railways that use locos to
haul slow passenger trains: they are used for freight and for high speed
(OK, that sounds silly if you've travelled by train in France or
Germany) passenger services.
Hmm..I always thought that passenger trains were faster on general terms....
And why does it sound silly in France/Germany?
Yeah but they haul a lot of people quicker that a bus would.....
And its a larger initial cost but surely they would haul back money?
That's the general idea ... whether it works or not depends on how good
your system is!
Its made by Manchester City Council........Stands to reason that its
naff....B-(
Why?.....When its dark you go to bed......
It gets dark by 4 o'clock right ATM ... I have lectures that start after
that, so going to bed then wouldn't be a good plan!
Nonsense.....I'm sure your lecturers would love it!!! <vbg!>
When your Wife/Girlfriend shouts/hurls things at you its time to
do Tea!!
Don't have a wife or girlfriend.
In that case your lucky as noone with nag you to death.........Hands up all
the married ones!!
Whats you problem? B-)
I meant more keep track of TT time ... particularly if I'm just letting
things 'tick over' to bring some money in.
If I need to do that I usually go and collect my wife from work or put tea
on.......I've tried to just sit there.......But then I start changing
things...And spend all the money I'm trying to make!!
Well surely the company wouldn't build them only on demand...Do they?
I know that for railway stock (in Britain ATM), it takes well over a
year (if not MUCH longer) between placing an order for stock and having
them up and running. I don't know how things work for road vehicles.
Peter has just told me......
But There are HUGE carparks in Birmingham where literally all you can see
for miles is cars....

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

Re: Suggestions for future TT

Posted: 16 Dec 1999 00:00
by Peter J. Dobrovka
Trikky schrieb in Nachricht <83bj0j$kn...@gxsn.com>...
Peter J. Dobrovka <dobro...@t-online.de> wrote in message
in 3DTT, you can build your own factory and you
can even play the role of a pure engine builder and seller.

This would be good......Could you operate two companies at the same time?
One doing the engine buying and selling...
The other doing the transport side?
You can operate two companies if you connect two computers and pretend to be
two players, hehe.
I don't know it would make any sense to control more than one company. The
man behind the decisions is the same anyway. Of course you can do both
mentioned businesses at the same time.

Peter