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Playing a turn of the century mass transit oriented game, and I just wanted to mention that I find it odd that the two items of metro stock available to me right now, Brooklyn Union and Budapest 1894, cannot be coupled to the metro wagon, nor can they be coupled to another vehicle of their same design. I know metros ran multiple unit trains at this time, but was unsure if there was a particular reason that these vehicles can only be run as single unit trains.

Best,

supermop wrote:Playing a turn of the century mass transit oriented game, and I just wanted to mention that I find it odd that the two items of metro stock available to me right now, Brooklyn Union and Budapest 1894, cannot be coupled to the metro wagon, nor can they be coupled to another vehicle of their same design. I know metros ran multiple unit trains at this time, but was unsure if there was a particular reason that these vehicles can only be run as single unit trains.

These two and some others that come later, are meant to be single units. They are not meant to be coupled, not even to wagons. It's intentional.

Why? They could be in the old version(1.0.1).

oberhümer wrote:Why?

The only reason I had was that the picture I used to draw them showed a single unit without any signs of coupling. I guess adding some early metro which can be coupled makes sense.

They could be in the old version(1.0.1).

I guess this wasn't implemented yet at 1.0.1 then.



Overall, I agree gameplay wise adding a very early metro which can be coupled would be nice. But I'd like having a few single-unit metros too.

Several times we had a discussion about "realism" in this set. Well, IMO, a little little realism doesn't hurt, it's actually challenging. These cars were, historically speaking, single cars. Also IMO, if we start changing these basic facts in this manner, we could also do something totally unreal, like a steamer going 300 km/h or a hopper carrying 500 tons... Personally, I would not like that.

However, my concern is, that without any coupled metro train, it's more attractive to use regular steamers with coaches.

These single-unit metros still should have their purpose.

Voyager1 wrote:Several times we had a discussion about "realism" in this set. Well, IMO, a little little realism doesn't hurt, it's actually challenging. These cars were, historically speaking, single cars. Also IMO, if we start changing these basic facts in this manner, we could also do something totally unreal, like a steamer going 300 km/h or a hopper carrying 500 tons... Personally, I would not like that.

Or say having mail wagons in trains that never had them. That would be really silly...

[quote="Doorslammer"Or say having mail wagons in trains that never had them. That would be really silly...[/quote]
That's another issue I personally don't like very much. I've just drawn some Shinkansen variants and imagine how delighted I was with drawing mail coaches for them...

Well... there's a pro and a con for everything. It's impossible to make everybody happy. I'm satisfied with the developers' job so far.

Doorslammer wrote:Or say having mail wagons in trains that never had them. That would be really silly...

Well, the 2cc set obviously didn't aim for realism. If only certain MUs could carry mail it might end up being confusing for some players. I aimed to keep the 2cc set somewhat more simple, which means there also isn't any length restrictions for MUs (apart from the single-coach units).

Voyager1 wrote: That's another issue I personally don't like very much. I've just drawn some Shinkansen variants and imagine how delighted I was with drawing mail coaches for them...

Well, that might seem a bit useless, but drawing mail coaches isn't overly time-consuming or complicated if you've already drawn the passenger coaches.

Well... there's a pro and a con for everything. It's impossible to make everybody happy. I'm satisfied with the developers' job so far.

Glad to hear. It's hard to find a balance between gameplay and realism. While many sets may prioritize realism, it can't hurt to have a few sets around which priortize gameplay

Additionally, to be very honest, I just didn't do any historical research on any of the trains. I just found some pictures and thought 'Hey, that's a fun looking train to add' and started pixelling =P

Purno wrote:

Voyager1 wrote: That's another issue I personally don't like very much. I've just drawn some Shinkansen variants and imagine how delighted I was with drawing mail coaches for them...

Well, that might seem a bit useless, but drawing mail coaches isn't overly time-consuming or complicated if you've already drawn the passenger coaches.

I didn't say it was complicated, your tutorial taught me well!
I have just said that I don't really like seeing a beautiful train like the Shinkansen trailing mail coaches... The simple tought of it makes me laugh!

updated with a poll

Haven't seen multiple Budapest units, but the Brooklyn Union cars did run in MU

http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/early ... oklyn.html

Can't think of much wrong capacity wise. Maybe the speed of earlier wagons could be questioned though.

elaborate plox

I just did.

Well I currently like the capacities. I'm playing with weight x8, and in the 90's, is still have to consider what loc I should pick if I use the MarkIII wagons. Even for trains of 6 wagons I have to consider building around hills etc. I think the capacities are good.

Hi

i personally think they are really adequate for the emus and metro... i ve been playing a lot in dense area and u definitely need trains able to haul more than 1000 people on it on the less space possible... i use cargodist wich maybe explain why too... it s actually even quite easy to lack capacities when u start doing metro connection betweens hubs in a dense area...

So please let it as it is ! well i talk for the emus and metros,
But maybe the coaches need to be more appealing to compete with them... cause slow loading and low capacity it s really not very sexy !

And finally about the one whining about mail coach on sinkansen.... i d just like to remind u that they is some TGV owned by La Poste and they are running just with mail coach... and btw mail is totally connected to pax in OTTD so let it be ! (You will always be able to not use those mail coach)

I've run into an issue concering wagon capacities with boxcars, capacities concerning goods or livestock versus fruit and veggies eg. have totally different meanings. This usually isn't a problem, however I started using autoreplace within OpenTTD and when upgrading wagons from second to third generation, the difference in weight is huge, which in turn imposes big problems on my trains.
Should I use the autoreplace differently, or is it possible make two different boxcar types, one for the heavy stuff, one for goods and livestock eg.

That i find very wierd, as the older wagons weigh 13% more per generation (adjusted with length) and can carry between 15 and 18% less cargo

Take the boxcar for example: Note: The short one is 5/8ths long, as opposed to the long one that is full length (8/8)

In other words: a train that is equally long (not in units, but in tiles) should be able to carry more and weigh less. You might however want to turn on "Wagon removal" in the bottom right corner in the autoreplace window

Hmm I wasn't clear enough and now I know what I could've done better.
First what i did: I selected change wagons on the bottom left of the replace window, on all trains. However, because changing from 2nd to 3rd generation, five 2nd gen wagons get changed to five 3rd gen wagons. Total weight increases very fast then, now this is less of a problem for the engines in case of the less weighing goods in a full boxcar (livestock) than for the goods like coal.
What I should have done however, is make groups of trains and make sure the combinations of engines + wagons is feasible for those groups, considering a boxcar with weighs less than a boxcar with. In the end it was a mistake from my side, using the autoreplace wrong.