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Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 13 Aug 2007 21:04
by wallyweb
Ameecher wrote:I would say that raising the land should be more expensive however, the bridge should also be quite expensive, not the ridiculously cheap prices compared to raising of the land that there is currently.
You might want to try these:
1. pb_build.grf from
http://pikkabird.livejournal.com/
2. bridgeprop.grf from
http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=579417
Oh yes ... you might also want to book an appointment with your psychoanalyst for after you play a game with them ... they are indeed cruel ... very very cruel.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 13 Aug 2007 21:09
by Ameecher
I play with pb_build already wallyweb, it's just that well, something along those lines would be good. I recently built a bridge (about 14 tiles long) for £131,000 ish. That is a lot more realistic than the £20,000 or so that it costs without pb_build.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 13 Aug 2007 21:29
by wallyweb
Ameecher wrote:I play with pb_build already wallyweb, it's just that well, something along those lines would be good. I recently built a bridge (about 14 tiles long) for £131,000 ish. That is a lot more realistic than the £20,000 or so that it costs without pb_build.
You must be the chap that has the padded cell next to mine.
I would suggest keeping the bridge costs normal for those not so daring. The masochists amongst us (me included) can resort to those two grf files.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 13 Aug 2007 22:14
by OzTrans
FooBar wrote:From most expensive to least expensive:
- Building a dam in the water.
- Building a high dam on land.
- Bridge.
- Dam on land one level up.
This looks to be very reasonable ...
wallyweb wrote: ... I would suggest keeping the bridge costs normal for those not so daring. ...
We can always make that parameter driven.
I have the intention to increase the base cost for bridge tiles, then set costs for early bridges lower than late model bridges, but keeping to the above list. Also, the higher the speed, the higher the costs. Don't forget, the longer the bridge the higher the per tile cost, just like with tunnels.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 14 Aug 2007 08:00
by Purno
IIRC, building a bridge in TTD was cheaper than building a railway track on land of the same length...
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 14 Aug 2007 22:55
by SHADOW-XIII
wallyweb wrote:SHADOW-XIII wrote:do we really need unlimited length bridges ?
Yes!
Some of my scenarios involve wide expanses of water.
tsssk, use ships ... unload option and all passengers change to ship ...
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 14 Aug 2007 23:38
by wallyweb
SHADOW-XIII wrote:tsssk, use ships ... unload option and all passengers change to ship ...
True ... and I do do that, however occasionally an extremely long bridge comes in handy. Out of curiosity what would you consider a reasonable maximum length?
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 15 Aug 2007 00:09
by krtaylor
My thought is that there should be no maximum bridge length, BUT I would profoundly raise the cost. I'd think the cost should be something more akin to the length of the bridge, squared, times the height, times a cost constant and inflation adjustment. So a bridge that's four squares long would cost not twice a bridge two squares long, but four times as much. I suspect that there is a cost increase like this in reality, though I don't have any actual idea.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 15 Aug 2007 01:58
by OzTrans
wallyweb wrote: ... what would you consider a reasonable maximum length?
For me, that would be 10, unless I want to cross a deep valley. I, too, build extremely long bridges over water at the edge of the map to get to the other side, but I will use little islands every 10 tiles for the signals.
krtaylor wrote:... there should be no maximum bridge length, BUT I would profoundly raise the cost. I'd think the cost should be something more akin to the length of the bridge ...
That is already the case, see table (wooden bridge, medium game play, no inflation, in £)
Code: Select all
Bridge length (ex ramps) / Total Cost / Avg cost per tile (incl ramps) / Increase for an additional tile
0 171 86
1 257 86 86
2 429 107 172
3 601 120 172
4 859 143 258
5 1117 160 258
6 1375 172 258
7 1718 191 343
8 2062 206 344
9 2406 219 344
10 2750 229 344
11 3093 238 343
12 3437 246 344
An initial check of various costs suggests that bridges should cost about 3 to 4 times more than they do currently.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 00:30
by OzTrans
A trestle bridge ...
EDIT: updated diagram; it is not possible to have tracks/roads below the bridge.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 08:20
by FooBar
That looks very promising! I like it a lot!
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 18:16
by ISA
Wow thats very nice!
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 18:23
by Ameecher
May I suggest that you allow the trestle bridge be available for pre-1930 because I, and I know many other players do also, start before 1930. Having no bridges to build would be a bit frustrating
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 18:43
by wallyweb
Ameecher wrote:May I suggest that you allow the trestle bridge be available for pre-1930 because I, and I know many other players do also, start before 1930. Having no bridges to build would be a bit frustrating
I agree with this. Wood trestles were in use in Canada during the 1800's when the trans continental railroads were being built. A suggestion would be to replace the wood structure with steel after 1930. The frame work would be the same thus requiring only a recolouring. If further differentiation is required, the wood bridge could have a lower cost and lower maximum speed.
PS to Ameecher: If you go back to page one of this thread, you should see a post where a covered bridge and a viaduct are planed for 1920.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 17 Aug 2007 20:50
by OzTrans
... year of introduction for bridges ...
There will be at least 3 bridges, that will be available at the start of a game (regardless of the year the game starts, could be 1800). Also, there will be at least 1 bridge available, that covers bridge lengths from 0 to 16.
All specifications, like year of intro, costs and speed, have not been decided yet.
wallyweb wrote: ... to replace the wood structure with steel after 1930. ...
That's an idea, we could do the same thing as with NARoads, i.e. having 2 generations of the trestle bridge, including different costs and speed.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 19 Aug 2007 02:17
by OzTrans
Update on the trestle bridge : it is unfortunately impossible to have tracks and/or roads below the bridge. There was a design fault, diagram updated (see post further up).
Next a Viaduct Bridge ...
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 19 Aug 2007 11:41
by krtaylor
I don't like that last viaduct bridge. If it's made out of brick/stone, as it looks to be, I don't think that kind of archway works structurally. I believe you would have to have a support on the edge of every square. That would give the correct proportions, and also make coding easier I think.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 15 Sep 2007 14:46
by lifeblood
OzTrans, I hope you're not mad at me! I vanished. After a much needed break from responsibilities in life, I'm back. I'll commence drawing something in the next few days. Essential to the North American experience is the pony plate girder bridge:
http://bridgehunter.com/browse/type/girder/pony/plate/
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 15 Sep 2007 22:41
by OzTrans
lifeblood wrote:... I hope you're not mad at me! I vanished. ...
Not at all ... ATM, I'm busy with other things too.
I'll commence drawing something in the next few days. ...
Before you start, you'll need instructions. I'll be in touch.
Essential to the North American experience is the pony plate girder bridge ...
That would be #4 (flat concrete) redrawn [see page 1].
krtaylor wrote:I don't like that last viaduct bridge. If it's made out of brick/stone, as it looks to be, I don't think that kind of archway works structurally. ...
Me too ... just think of reinforced concrete behind the brick facade. The reason for having 2 and 3 tile spans is to make the bridges suitable for future diagonal tracks below.
Re: North American Bridges Set [under development]
Posted: 15 Sep 2007 22:57
by wallyweb
OzTransLtd wrote:... suitable for future diagonal tracks below.
Hmm ... Intriguing.
