Shifty's Vehicles

[Purno]

Shifty Powers, you get my support. As Far As I Read, you only tried to improve the LoMo experience by making your own graphics. If scrat and oppie feel attacked and therefore remove and discontinue work on the NL Set, then it's not your fault IMO.

[Shifty Powers]

Thanks for your support, as you had read (I hope) that it were never my intensions of destroying, but only trying to improve something to add or make it look better, then your the guy who really understands it all.

[Daan Timmer]

Shifty Powers, you get my support. As Far As I Read, you only tried to improve the LoMo experience by making your own graphics. If scrat and oppie feel attacked and therefore remove and discontinue work on the NL Set, then it's not your fault IMO.

I second that....

don't blame shifty, for making scrat/oppie leave. as they made that choice themselves.

it was shiftys intention to add a few trains, that Scrat/Oppie did not want to make (Yes, you didn't want to make the new sprinter livery). I personally find it even lame of Scrat/Oppie to leave for that reason (might be more... but it is this point is discussed here).

For me, this would be a reason to go improve! the set. (if I had made it/was able to make it...), not a reason to toss in the towel, and leave.

Sorry scrat, Sorry oppie, I like your work, I respect you both. But I do not really stand behind your decission to stop working on the project(s).

And especially the immaturance of the rest of the forummers here.

*OH SHIFTY YOU NITWIT, LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, GO LEAVE FORUM blaaa....* comon! thats even LOWER then childish, really.

Goes for you too Chevy. you are like kinda *old* compared to most of us (I am 19, 4th of july 20). I expected a more Mature response towards Shifty. not like *GO PRAY OR LEAVE*.

[edit]E.G.:::

Shifty!! On your knees and bow your head for the MASTERS.

No, we haven't, Locomotion is still alive, but some people (no names) think diverend (no offence)

Well, i have offense to you.
Without Scrat and Oppie and their mods, Locomotion will die within a few weeks.
So if you have the guts and some reasonable working brain, ask them on a very humble way for forgiveness or leave the forum

quite immature to me -_-[/edit]

if YOU dont liek Shifty, then YOU leave. not Shifty, Shifty does not have a problem with any of you all (AFAIK). So its not his turn to leave, if you, or any1 else, doesn't like him. Either live with the fact, that internet/forum is an open place for everyone.

Sad to see that hard work of 2 good boys/male vanish to dust, ohwell. Everyone is replacable (yep hard, but true).

[chevyrider]

Thanks for your support, as you had read (I hope) that it were never my intensions of destroying, but only trying to improve something to add or make it look better, then your the guy who really understands it all.

I know Shifty, because we both were involved with the development of the N.L. set and also a little in the N.L. Region.
We spend several days in research and came with good ideas to make them better. So it's a bit, a tiny bit, our work too and there are several other members who gave their input.
But you made some rude remarks about the sprinter nose, that could have been done on a more civilized way.
During test fase, i already contacted them about the looks of that sprinter.
But i was reasonably content, because there where so many prefect thing too.
But you and Scrat too have an ego, man o man...
I should say PM each other and speak this out.
IMO an argument only between two people, isn't worth that the whole Lomo community dies.
This will certainly happen because the tools are withdrawn too.
I would say to you both, take a good thinking about this, take a deep breath, again.... and keep Lomo alive.

[Steve]

Jeezus, no mod has replied here yet ???
This topic took a nasty turn

Sorry, been a bit busy.



I'm trying to understand what the problem is here and i'm just not seeing what the big deal is.

Everyone is happy that scrat and oppie made the NL set.

Shifty made some new NL trains to complement the NL set.

I hardly see why someone else making trains in the same area or maybe a slight bit of opposition, is worth giving up over. Is that all it takes to stop a good project?
Perhaps you just need a bit of time to think this over. And noone will blame anyone if they change their mind.


And then we have the Vehicle Creator thing, which has also been cancelled. I see no connection here, except the same author. It seems an awful waste for such a little squabble.

[Shifty Powers]

But you made some rude remarks about the sprinter nose, that could have been done on a more civilized way.

I know, sometimes my words are a bit rude, but heay, no one is perfect is speaking a diverend language then it's own.

I should say PM each other and speak this out.

I allready sended an PM with my e-mail adress where he can contact me or add me to msn, so I'll hear it when he is calmend down (I hope).

I would say to you both, take a good thinking about this, take a deep breath, again.... and keep Lomo alive.

I'm allready standing by to hear from Scrat, my first set is done by sending an PM, now it's Scrat's turn to reply. (let's hope he wil to solve this problem)

[scrat]

"some missing vehicles from the NL-set"
"NS Plan Y 'Sprinter' EMU-2" [It's there.]
"NS Plan Y 'Sprinter' EMU-3" [It's there.]
"NS Plan W (2nd Class)" [It's there.]
"NS 'Motorpost' (mail carrying engine)" [It's there.]

"will be replacing some of scrats vehicles" [Really?]

"I'm not completely taking over everything" [Very gracious of you.]

"do work on the NL-Region" [Even clients that pay me 80 Euros per hour don't get to order me around; what makes you think you can?.]

"if we work together, then a lot more vehicles can be in the set" [We won't work together; what you do is your business, but the Shifty Set is not, nor shall ever be, part of the NL Pack.]

"I only want to make the NL-set even better" [You're not part of the NL Pack team. What you do on your own is your own business, but don't pretend your work is in any way associated with the NL Pack.]

"I won't redo all the vehicles" [Well, thank you. I suppose Chris from Christrains.nl didn't do all the vehicles that Oppie and I did.]

"Just like the NL-set, it's never perfect, I'm just improving it a little bit" [Again, you're free to offer your Shifty Set to whoever wants it, but you are in no way whatsoever associated with the NL Pack and neither are your products].

"I hope you won't be that childish" [At least the childish guy refrained from using value judgments about your state of mind].

"Do you really think that the guys from the TTD-patch worked at the company that made TTD?" [Comparing coding ingenuity with using 3rd party's shapes, combined with using my coding ingenuity is taking hubris to another level. Just so you know.]

"such a helpfull program for people who can't really design" [There we have the crux of it.]

"it's something between me and Scrat, if he isn't that childish" [That's me; one big baby.]

"I did it in a topic with a small picture to let him see what I was doing and if he would appreciate what I was doing, never got an answer, and we got a dutch expression: "Wie zwijgt stemt toe" (English: "Who keeps himself silent says yes")." [Such a flimsy rationale. Especially given the fact that I did answer some of your PMs and emails wherein you requested instructions on how to work with VC and how to code XML for EMUs. Strictly speaking, your work was limited to pressing a few buttons; the creative work and the thinking was done by others.]

"they need to work again to finish the NL-pack for everybody" [I don't need to do bugger all. You are in no position to order me around. Currently, I'm awaiting Oppie's answer to an idea of mine, but if Maglev work is going to be finished at all, I'm very much in favor of a payware construction. Ironically, the rush job that kept me occupied the past few days involved writing a tamper proof registration module for distributed software. Guess on what software I'm going to implement that.]

"I allready sended an PM with my e-mail adress where he can contact me or add me to msn, so I'll hear it when he is calmend down (I hope)." [I was calm yesterday and I am calm now. Just because I don't see things your way does not suggest I'm frothing from the mouth, thank you very much. Any discussion between you and me will be public, not private.]

"I'm allready standing by to hear from Scrat, my first set is done by sending an PM, now it's Scrat's turn to reply. (let's hope he wil to solve this problem)" [Like I said, discussions between you and me will be public. And it's not I who has to solve this problem.]

That said, this entire rolling circus has put me off modding/freeware and I suspect (-- though I definitely do not speak for him --) you will not find a different attitude from Oppie. Ball's in your court, Shifty.

[Larry]

Shifty Powers, you get my support. As Far As I Read, you only tried to improve the LoMo experience by making your own graphics. If scrat and oppie feel attacked and therefore remove and discontinue work on the NL Set, then it's not your fault IMO.

I second that....

don't blame shifty, for making scrat/oppie leave. as they made that choice themselves.

Who else to blame then? Imagine the following story.. A mighty wizard gives some guy a magic-wand which makes him able to do all the tricks in the World. The wizard worked hard on this wand, hours and hours were spent, but he wanted to do the guy a favour. But what does this guy do? He imitates the wizard, he does the very same tricks as the wizard does. What do you expect the wizard to react? Should he be happy? I guess not... Would he have given this guy the wand if he had known what that one was going do with it? Of course not..

Sorry Shifty, but I really don't see why you have to do vehicles from the NL-pack. There are so many countrys in this World with so many vehicles, why do you have to do vehicles that are already here??

[lobster]

Who else to blame then? Imagine the following story.. A mighty wizard gives some guy a magic-wand which makes him able to do all the tricks in the World. The wizard worked hard on this wand, hours and hours were spent, but he wanted to do the guy a favour. But what does this guy do? He imitates the wizard, he does the very same tricks as the wizard does. What do you expect the wizard to react? Should he be happy? I guess not... Would he have given this guy the wand if he had known what that one was going do with it? Of course not...

nice example, and let me add a few points. not only did the guy who got the wand from the wizard do the exact same tricks, he tried to improve them, and become better then the wizard, while all he got was what he got from the wizard. for those not seeing a link here, this is the perfect example of Scrat's "Don not bite the hand that feeds you".

i don't know why some of you don't realize the situation. this isn't a matter of simple back-stabbing anymore, this really is a matter of pride, and dignity. simply seen, Shifty used Scrat's work without knowing s*** about it, and said he'll improve it. don't you realize how that could hurt? don't you realize that is probably the most dumb thing to do? are you really that stupid? i leave this for now, and observe the ongoing discussion.

Scrat: i know you could be an off-topic-pain-in-the-ass, i was actually surprised you broke your "i'm not talking to you anymore"-attitude.
anyway, if you decide to continue any project on a paid basis, count me in. and aside, maybe it's a nice idea to write a new rights document on the vehicle creator, which states that all published vehicles made through it will have to be approved by you. with ofcourse tough punishment on breaking that very rule.

[Shifty Powers]

Your still acting childish and can't say anything else but the same things. If you just started to look for things you can answer correctly then it may work for you, but not anymore.

You just refused the change of even trying to make things right, so it's my turn to do what i want.

"Just like the NL-set, it's never perfect, I'm just improving it a little bit"[/qoute]Again, you're free to offer your Shifty Set to whoever wants it, but you are in no way whatsoever associated with the NL Pack and neither are your products.

You haven't got the registration rights of the set, nothing has been registered, so everybody has got the right to do what they want with the name.

Even clients that pay me 80 Euros per hour don't get to order me around; what makes you think you can?.

Maby you need to look further then your nose, everybody is asking you, almost saying you must (not my words dude) continiue the set, so don't spread things that aren't true.

I hope you won't be that childish

At least the childish guy refrained from using value judgments about your state of mind.

I'm childish? Your the one who is removing everything so no new people who heard from the NL-pack can download/see the NL-pack.

Ironically, the rush job that kept me occupied the past few days involved writing a tamper proof registration module for distributed software. Guess on what software I'm going to implement that.

Do you think that that affects my version of VC? No it doesn't, you should know that.

Like I said, discussions between you and me will be public. Not private.

When you've got problems with your neighbours, are you gonna solve that at a forum? Well, not me. Unless you want to call the judge. (What is really an stupid idea to do)

I hope, well hope, there isn't any. You go your way, I go my way, and I'm gonna do what I want (because you refuse to solve the problem, and no, this ain't revenge), and will release what I want. It's people's decission to download and use what they want, cause you can't order them what to do.
If you think you can order people like now, that they only may download you software and stuff, then I think you need to call the mental institution.

There we have the crux of it.

you designed it and if you looked further, you would have seen the possibillity that people are goin to use it, to do what they want. But I know you didn't looked further then your nose.

That's me; one big baby.

It's that you say it.

I did it in a topic with a small picture to let him see what I was doing and if he would appreciate what I was doing, never got an answer, and we got a dutch expression: "Wie zwijgt stemt toe" (English: "Who keeps himself silent says yes").

Such a flimsy rationale. Especially given the fact that I did answer some of your PMs and emails wherein you requested instructions on how to work with VC and how to code XML for EMUs. Strictly speaking, your work was limited to pressing a few buttons; the creative work and the thinking was done by others.

Well, you never answered the post, and this is not an answer on my words, or is it?

You are in no position to order me around.

How long is your nose? Much more people said that, so take them next time also in your post and insult them also if you would. Then you let everybody know who said that!

[Shifty Powers]

Sorry Shifty, but I really don't see why you have to do vehicles from the NL-pack. There are so many countrys in this World with so many vehicles, why do you have to do vehicles that are already here??

Nice story, really, do you tell your kids that? No offence dude, but do you really know what is going on around here? I wanted to make the "Sprinter 2003", that wasn't in the NL-pack, and I wanted that Scrat saw it as an add-on. Cause I never ever seen games without an add-on or a patch, that keeps games alive.

[lobster]

it's a damn shame to see every credit you still could've had is destroyed by your own hands. i'm rather sad to mention this, but you really are "your own worst enemy". and the more i read your replies, the more decreases my respect for you, if i had any in the first place. instead of doing something smart, like apologizing, you start repeating hundreds of times that Scrat is "childish and should look futher then his nose". i see that this is your most constructive argument, and i wonder why you are still alive, would you solve every debate or confrontation this way.

[Shifty Powers]

Shifty used Scrat's work without knowing (UNSPEAKEBLE WORD) about it

Well Astath, I didn't used "his"work, or Oppie's work, I used MSTS models with aproval of the creator. So next time, read all the posts for even trying to say something that makes any sense.

[Purno]

Scrat is behaving childish IMO.

Nobody ever drew a TGV Atlantique for TTDPatch, and I liked that train a lot. Until I drew one, then other ppl start drawing TGVs and such. Now do I behave like Scrat?

Come on, it's not Shifty's fault. Everybody is free to make what he wants.

[Shifty Powers]

Instead of doing something smart, like apologize.

I made some, but it probable never got into your eyes, so don't say things before knowing what happend. Happy reading then.

[Purno]

The only thing Shifty could apologize for is that he maybe should have used some other words. But nobody could expect Scrat would react this way IMO.

[Shifty Powers]

Scrat is behaving childish IMO.

Nobody ever drew a TGV Atlantique for TTDPatch, and I liked that train a lot. Until I drew one, then other ppl start drawing TGVs and such. Now do I behave like Scrat?

Come on, it's not Shifty's fault. Everybody is free to make what he wants.

If we all follows Purno's words, would we have a fight here? No, we wouldn't have. As far as I know, no "patent" (Registration Rights) have been ordered at the Dutch Goverment. So like Purno said, everybody is free to do what they want, unless we get dictator ship where Scrat is looking for, rule the world alone, ain't you want that Scrat?

[lobster]

Shifty used Scrat's work without knowing (UNSPEAKEBLE WORD) about it

Well Astath, I didn't used "his"work, or Oppie's work, I used MSTS models with aproval of the creator. So next time, read all the posts for even trying to say something that makes any sense.

oh, ofcourse, and you did the following XML-coding by yourself without any help from the Vehicle Creator? now i get, sorry, i thought you used a tool MADE BY SCRAT to create your vehicles, but i was wrong.

I made some, but it probable never got into your eyes, so don't say things before knowing what happend. Happy reading then.

apparently not good ones, as i can imagine while reading the past few posts. this isn't just a matter of saying "sorry, i just wanted to make your sucky vehicles cool, uh-huh", but to face consequences and mirror them into your own (and other's) benefits. you simply don't seem to understand this.

As far as I know, no "patent" (Registration Rights) have been ordered at the Dutch Goverment. So like Purno said, everybody is free to do what they want, unless we get dictator ship where Scrat is looking for, rule the world alone, ain't you want that Scrat?

oh my, do you really think this about patent, about whoever has the personal rights to something? you ignorant fool, don't you realize that it is the plain stupidity of re-doing Scrat and Oppie's vehicles without fully and thoroughly informing of your plans in advance that is the problem? plus ofcourse the fact that you act like an ignorant selfish kid now, claiming that you've done nothing wrong at all, and it's all Scrat's fault. if Scrat hand't built that Vehicle Creator you wouldn't have any business at all here.

[Purno]

oh, ofcourse, and you did the following XML-coding by yourself without any help from the Vehicle Creator? now i get, sorry, i thought you used a tool MADE BY SCRAT to create your vehicles, but i was wrong.

Isn't that what a tool is for? I think Scrat released it so other people can used it? Isn't it a bit strange that you can use it until someone makes Dutch trains?

I'm sorry, but you're totally wrong on this point IMO.

[Shifty Powers]

i just wanted to make your sucky vehicles cool, uh-huh

My intensions were to add some missing vehicles, like the Sprinter 2003, that wasn't in the pack, and i didn't care if they wold end up in the pack. I only wanted to have some extra vehicles, so people have more choice on vehicles in diverend time-colors. That's all. That people say that I wanted to redo the entire are not my words.