US Set Development Thread

[uzurpator]

I cannot play because of a bug

error at sprite 5394 on alpha 47

[krtaylor]

You mean the US set? What are your settings? I can play just fine here.

[uzurpator]

typical - methinks.

I just use parameter 5 (AI flag). Anyways - it won't work even without it

[krtaylor]

Huh. I'm using no parameters and the Arctic climate, and it works fine. I believe Dan is also using Arctic, and I suspect with no parameters. Try it without that parameter and see what happens.

[DanMacK]

Yeah, no problems on my end, and I've loaded it in all 3 climates successfully...

[Patchman]

I cannot play because of a bug

error at sprite 5394 on alpha 47

Does it give an error code? If not, please delete your ttdpttxt.dat file or follow the instructions at the end of this page to enable display of the error code. The code will doubtlessly be very helpful in fixing it.

[Oracle]

Do none of you have serious problems with TTD sometimes freezing when starting a new game? I do, and it's really puzzling me. Anyway, if you're not then at least you can enjoy the set!

2. Where's the Shay? It should be available through the whole steam era.

Someone told me not to put it in Arctic, I'm sure.

3. Having real US names is a major improvement. And I like the town of "West Oracle." I'll have to make sure to give it plenty of food and goods when the time comes.

Don't let it get too busy, though...

And another thing: Why can boxcars hold 35 crates of goods, but only 17 tons of wheat, whereas livestock cars can hold 30 items of livestock? Seems off here, and I don't remember it being that way before. I'd think a car could hold more wheat than livestock. Needs adjustment.

I obviously haven't set the refit capacity callback correctly.

The forward facing C&NW GP9 is off, not sure about the C&O one.

Both were, but they're fixed now.

Also, the Train Master should be available until about 1960.

It's currently 1961 !

Another bug, the J3a Hudson should appear in 1927, the streamlined version in 1938 (temperate only)

The introduction date was wrong but the streamlined one was right.

Also, the Mountain is a 'PRR M1a Class Mountain'

I don't use road names in the game (although the readme is wrong) but will Class M1a 'Mountain' be acceptable as the in-game name?

End-of-train device should come in in 1970, not 1958

You've been reading the readme too carefully . I had changed it to 1970 in game but hadn't updated that column of the readme.

I cannot play because of a bug

error at sprite 5394 on alpha 47

Does it give an error code? If not, please delete your ttdpttxt.dat file or follow the instructions at the end of this page to enable display of the error code. The code will doubtlessly be very helpful in fixing it.

I was about to ask for that. I really don't know what's the problem but I did find an incorrect length a few sprites before, which might be the cause. An updated version is currently being uploaded (at the same location), so see if that works.

Thank you for spotting all these bugs. Please report any more in this thread because it makes it much easier for me to work on than via PMs.

[uzurpator]

code 4 / 1,056

EDIT: disabling 'newtownnames' takes out the error.'

[Oracle]

uzurpator (and everyone else): try downloading again - I've uploaded a version without the town names because they seem to be the cause of many problems and I've realised another reason why they need to be separate in any case. If you want to use them, try the attached ustowns.grf but I don't guarantee that this is bug free.
(The readme hasn't been updated to take this into account yet.)

Unfortunately I don't understand why you get that sprite error, in that byte in particular...

[krtaylor]

Do none of you have serious problems with TTD sometimes freezing when starting a new game?

None whatsoever.

2. Where's the Shay? It should be available through the whole steam era.

Someone told me not to put it in Arctic, I'm sure.

Well, it should be...

AFA town names, I'm convinced there's a Patch bug as I've described elsewhere, or a significant coding misunderstanding. Once that is nailed down, I imagine they'll be fine. The town names really ought to be included in the set itself when it's released, of course assuming we iron the bugs out. But then, that's what we're working on.

[uzurpator]

A few initial thoughts.

The quality is superb - especially positioning of the sprites has much improved since the last revision

Now - bugs I noticed.

Consolidation - power is too much - it should be in the 1200-1500 hp range. Also - weight is wrong - should be about 90-100 tons. Is 40

Shay - power is WAAAAY to high. Shays were about 300-400 hp. For the sake of the game - let us say it is 600 hp. Also weight should be about 110 tonnes. With that weight the tractive effort should be about 280 kN. (minimum weight for 337 kN is about 130 tonnes.

N&w Y6b - should be Class Y6 - yr 1936 - the data as it is now. And a single tender. Double tender Y6b's were song of the future - introduced about 1955.

Allegheny has its tender wrongly positioned in horizontal view.

Isn't 1949 too early for E8. I thought these locos were introduced in early sixites/late fifties.

Mikado is too light - 129 tons - should be 240+ tons.

More to come surely

[krtaylor]

Consolidation - power is too much - it should be in the 1200-1500 hp range. Also - weight is wrong - should be about 90-100 tons. Is 40

But the tender weighs 50 tons, does it not? Dan did the research for this one already.

Shay - power is WAAAAY to high. Shays were about 300-400 hp. For the sake of the game - let us say it is 600 hp. Also weight should be about 110 tonnes. With that weight the tractive effort should be about 280 kN. (minimum weight for 337 kN is about 130 tonnes.

We've argued this out several times. No more arguments from data. If there's a gameplay or balance issue, that's different.

N&w Y6b - should be Class Y6 - yr 1936 - the data as it is now. And a single tender. Double tender Y6b's were song of the future - introduced about 1955.

The Y6b is the famous one, I'm not sure what the difference is. Dan? I agree about the double tenders.

Isn't 1949 too early for E8. I thought these locos were introduced in early sixites/late fifties.

I'm not 100% clear on the difference between the various E and F models, but as I recall they were introduced quite some while before they became common, initially because of wartime materials shortages, later I think because the railroads had a whole lot of things they needed capital investment in and locos were only one. In my games, despite the introduction of diesels in the early 40s (and no wartime shortages), the transition doesn't really happen until the mid-50s, which is realistic. So we got the balance right I think.

Mikado is too light - 129 tons - should be 240+ tons.

Dan? Again, don't forget the tender. Is it different from the past version? I haven't noticed any problems with it. Also, increasing the weight would increase the TE, and we don't want that for balance reasons, do we?

[uzurpator]

But the tender weighs 50 tons, does it not? Dan did the research for this one already.

BOINK! Tender!. Make that 140 tons for the loco+tender.

We've argued this out several times. No more arguments from data. If there's a gameplay or balance issue, that's different.

You know - 2100 hp for shay is too high. 300 hp was the class medium. 600, meh, 1000 hp even is much more accurate.

As for weight. _minimum_ weight to get 337 kN is 130 tons. Period.

The Y6b is the famous one, I'm not sure what the difference is. Dan? I agree about the double tenders.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/articulated/nwy.shtml

I'm not 100% clear on the difference between the various E and F models, but as I recall they were introduced quite some while before they became common, initially because of wartime materials shortages, later I think because the railroads had a whole lot of things they needed capital investment in and locos were only one. In my games, despite the introduction of diesels in the early 40s (and no wartime shortages), the transition doesn't really happen until the mid-50s, which is realistic. So we got the balance right I think.

Nevermind - I dug up some data. E8 were produced in 1949-1953 period.

Dan? Again, don't forget the tender. Is it different from the past version? I haven't noticed any problems with it. Also, increasing the weight would increase the TE, and we don't want that for balance reasons, do we?

The weight and TE values can be tweaked - and should be Mikado - with 2-8-2 would weigh about 160 tons without tender.

[DanMacK]

re: the End-Of-Train Device, I had it come in in my current game around 1958 so something's amiss there

I agree with most of what uzurpator's saying, but as the Y6's (and the J's) were built in the N&W Roanoake shops, they were actually built by the railroad, and so the name should reflect that. Most of the PRR Mountains were built by Baldwin, so "Class M1a Mountain" is fine for them

re: the 2-8-2, it should be "USRA 'Mikado'

The Consol IS a bit too powerful though, and I agree with uzurpator's suggestions, same w/the Shay.

[uzurpator]

f40ph - amtrak
f40ph - MBTA + stock
f40ph - NJT + stock (the cars also fit alp 46)

amtrak - all 3
mbta - arctic
njt - temprate

two more bugs:

Why on earth ALP-7 got derated?
My bad - wanted to point it out :/, and its due to wrong info i gave. genesis P40 should be 4000 hp.

EDIT:

Positioning:

Cars: Amtrak California Bilevels, Superliners (all), Metra and metra f59phi.

All those should be realigned.

Metra bilevels and f59phi are correctly placed regarding themselves - but they carry the same bug - uncorrected for amk california bilevels and superliners.

Take a look at align.png.

It is evident that both superliner and amk cal bilevel are drawn ontop p40/f59phi. They both (bilevels of both kinds) should go 1 px up and 2 px left. This holds true for the other slant view also. Locos are properely aligned.

EDIT2:

Could we take out all metra liveried locos that share blue/orange scheme? Despite my best efforts I couldn't make it look ok...

EDIT3:

Neither BNSF or C&NW had ac6000. The biggest user of those locos is CSX - with a few on UP. Drop both those liveries. Actually - you might also drop AC6000 for tropics.

[DanMacK]

re: dropping the AC6000CW in certain climates, as the sprites are pretty much the same, why not use the specs for the AC4400CW (or C44-9W). It's A LOT more common and would fit in better overall I think. UP, BNSF, CSX, NS as well as SF, SP, C&NW used C44-9W's or their AC counterparts. I'd say switch the specs back to the 4400HP unit.

Also, another bug re: the S2 Northern. It has rong livery override for the coaches, it should pull the Pullman green heavyweights only, regardless of era. Right now it has the N&W coaches and the normal era-specific baggage car.

[uzurpator]

ac4400 duplicates sd70mac - no point to have two virtually the same locos.

[DanMacK]

ac4400 duplicates sd70mac - no point to have two virtually the same locos.

There's a 400 HP difference, plus several years. The C44-9W gives us more paint scheme options. Have the SD70MAC come out in 1992 (70M came in '92, AC in 93) and the AC4400CW in 1994 (they came out in 11/93)

Since there are less than 200 AC6000's, the AC4400CW would be a better choice overall for the second late model roadswitcher. Plus if you're using the "virtually the same" argument, Isn't the C30-7 similar to the SD40-2 and the C636 similar to the SD45?

BTW, nice job on the F40's.

[uzurpator]

Well - yes and no.

Since xxx-9/ac4400 duplicates sd70xxx players would have no incentive to use one over another. And it leaves a spot of high power road switcher - that one which could be used for intermodal equipment.

400 hp difference would not make much impact on a game.

Besides - we need more diesels for 1980-1990 period - like sd60 or xxx-8 locos.

[DanMacK]

Agreed. Below is GM and GE's production for those years, Any suggestions?
Table from Motive Power Review

GM:
========

B-B trucked units
===========
GP40-2 4/72-11/86 1131
GP49 8/83-5/85 9
GP50 5/80-11/85 278
GP59 6/85-?/89 36 [all 710G engine]
GP60 10/85-? 294
GP60B ?/91 25
GP60M 6/90-9/90 63

C-C trucked units
============

SD40 1/66-7/72 1257
SD40-2 1/72-2/86 3957
SD50S 12/80 6
developmental SD50, short frame, originally classified SD50.
SD50 5/81-5/85 361
SD60 5/84-?/91 537 [all 710G engine]
SD60M ?/89-? 461
widenose version of SD60
SD60MAC 1/92-9/92 4
developmental SD70MAC
SD60I ?/94-? 80
SD70 ?/93- 120+
SD70M ?/92- 1063+
SD70I ?/95- 26+
SD70MAC 11/93- 666+

GE:
====================
B-B Trucked Units
============
B30-7 12/77-5/81 199
B30-7A 6/80-2/82 58
B30-7 with uprated B23-7 engine
B30-7A1 4/82-5/82 22
updated B30-7A
B30-7A(B) 6/82-10/83 120
cabless B30-7A
B32-8 1/84-?/89 49
B32-8WH ?/91-?/91 20
B32-8 modified for passenger service

B36-7 11/80-9/85 222
B39-8E ?/84-7/88 145
slightly updated B39-8, 4 are rebuilds
B40-8 5/88-?/89 151
B40-8W 10/88-10/90 84

C-C trucked units
============
C30-7 9/76-2/85 1137
C32-8 9/84 10
demo/test units
C36-7 6/78-12/85 169
C39-8 3/83-1986? 136
C39-8E 1986?-12/87 25
C40-8 12/87-?/92 581

C40-8W ?/89-?/94 756
=============

Suggestions?