Posted: 26 Jun 2007 09:01
[I´ve moved this here because I don´t think it would make sense to answer it in it´s original OTTD thread.
The original suggestion was to include a "freeze time" feature to allow to use all engines of the DB Set. My answer being that this wouldn´t be necessary. However, Don Razzi came up with a more elaborate description:]
It´s 30 km/h faster, not 40. 
Historically, the E52 has been used for heavy passenger services and may also be used for light and medium freight in game. OTOH, the E16 is a pure express locomotive and should be used as such in the early years. To "enforce" that usage, I tweaked the E16 not be used for freight until the mid 1950s in v0.9 of the DBXL. Also, the additional 50kN of the E52 could be decisive in mountainous areas. Likewise, the 120km/h of the E16 can´t be used with slower coaches. Not to be forgotten, only express trains hauled by the E16 will get dining-cars.
You see, there are strong dependencies to the switches set (speedlimit, freighttrains, ...)
BTW, the ET-87 is introduced in v0.9 as early as 1921, but now with its historic speed of 70 km/h and o/c it´s only for passengers (and mail), so there is a place for the E52, IMO.
E75 and E95 are both pure freight engines (and will be used as such, mainly because of their reduced speed). And yes, TE does matter in "realistic" games. OTOH, the E95 will cost roughly 200,000 RM more than the E75 and has much higher running costs. In fact, it´s a double locomotive, but nevertheless, two E75s in double traction will cost you even more ...
The E44 will be introduced 7 years after the E75, though.
Which could be used for heavy bulk (coal, iron ore) early in game, especially in mountainous areas.
That´s why you shouldn´t try to use all DBXL´s engines in one game. The large variety is offered to choose from, depending on your particular needs which could (and should) be different from game to game.
O/c, nothing can be done to the usual surplus of money in the later game, but that´s not why there are so many and so costly engines.
Maybe there are still more (and different) opinions about the early electric´s scheme (or usage) in DBXL from a gamer´s POV, that´s why I posted it here.
regards
Michael
The original suggestion was to include a "freeze time" feature to allow to use all engines of the DB Set. My answer being that this wouldn´t be necessary. However, Don Razzi came up with a more elaborate description:]
Don Razzi wrote: [...] The main problem is that most of the early electric engines are very expensive if you play the game as hard as possible. This leads us to the fact, that for the price of an E 52 you easily can build a short track and equip it with two or three nice steam engines.
Well, the E 52 is introduced in 1924, that's four years after the start of the game, and usually (hard conditions and no cheating) in this early stage of the game I don't have the money to buy an expensive engine like this and look for other opportunities.
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E52: 1924, 90 km/h, 2992 hp, 196 kN, 310,250 RM, reliability decay (RD) = 16, running cost factor (RCF) = 130
Two years after the E 52, in 1926, the E 16 will be introduced - the fastest electric loco for decades. This engine is only slightly more expensive than the E 52, but 40 km/h faster. OK, I could buy the E 52 for realistic reasons and use it on some electrified branch line, but hey, in 1928 those beautyfull ET-87 also is on track...
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E16: 1926, 120 km/h, 3182 hp, 142 kN, 342,000 RM, RD = 14, RCF = 150
You see, there are strong dependencies to the switches set (speedlimit, freighttrains, ...)
BTW, the ET-87 is introduced in v0.9 as early as 1921, but now with its historic speed of 70 km/h and o/c it´s only for passengers (and mail), so there is a place for the E52, IMO.
In the same year DBSetXL lists the E 75, also an engine which I don't really use during my games: Compared to the E 52 it is slower, more expensive and hasn't that much power. OK, it does have a slightly better traction, but does that really matter? Two years later the E 95 will be introduced, which is hell of an engine.
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E75: 1928, 70 km/h, 2556 hp, 236 kN, 356,750 RM, RD = 16, RCF = 90
E95: 1930, 70 km/h, 3770 hp, 355 kN, 542,090 RM, RD = 15, RCF = 150
I think before 1930 most railway companies don't have the money to buy those big electric engines - most players would look for a non-electrified-solution. But after 1930 it doesn't make much sense to buy the E 75 or the E 52. The E 16 is cheaper and faster for passenger trains, the E 95 much punchier for freight trains. And don't forget that even this becomes obsolete after 1935 - when E 44 does arrive. An E 95 costs nearly as much as two E 44, and the E 44 is much faster.
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E44: 1935, 90 km/h, 2992 hp, 200 kN, 289,000 RM, ED = 8, RCF = 100
I don´t think there´s any "unattractive" engine in the game. There´s a niche for every engine you´ve mentioned. In fact, there are even more early engines in v0.9, especially another freight engine, theTime for a conclusion:
I think the electric part of DBSetXL is a little bit unbalanced - there are some engines, which may have had an use in real life, but which are quite unattractive in the game.
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E91: 1925, 60 km/h, 2992 hp, 300 kN, 315,000 RM, RD = 32, RCF = 130
Yes, that´s the main reason. OTOH, historical prices (which the DBXL does use) do reflect this nicely. Early electrics had been much more expensive than steam locomotives of that era.There are three ideas to solve this problem:
1. Start easier. Bigger loan, more money, less costs for the engines. But I think, TT already is easy enough.
2. Make the early engines cheaper. But this would be unrealistic and steam power would have no advance anymore.
Well, but all the electrics of te DBXL were in fact built after 1920, so the tight time frame isn´t due to some game limitations (TTDPatch vs. OTTD) but have historical reasons, and shouldn´t "stretched" in some way. OTOH, depending on the random amount of time TTD adds to the launch date, it could well be that engines are "delayed" and because of that the introduction process will get somewhat irritating.The third idea only is possible in OTTD and it's against Michaels original idea: OTTD supports early starting before 1920, but unfortunately I don't know any GRF which supports this feature right now. Some of DBSet's engines originally were built before 1920. If those engines would be introduced in the original year, the company would be richer when the big electric engines come. So for example the E 52 would become more interesting.
That´s why you shouldn´t try to use all DBXL´s engines in one game. The large variety is offered to choose from, depending on your particular needs which could (and should) be different from game to game.
O/c, nothing can be done to the usual surplus of money in the later game, but that´s not why there are so many and so costly engines.
Maybe there are still more (and different) opinions about the early electric´s scheme (or usage) in DBXL from a gamer´s POV, that´s why I posted it here.
regards
Michael
