Transport Tycoon Forums

Toni Babelony wrote:I still think it's an awesome set and it doesn't need any other set to contribute to it's awesomeness. It's just that awesome! Did I already say it's awesome, though it's a pity for those who want to combine it with other sets. So be it.

It will be more better if we can just use others sets with this one as well.

Draakon wrote:

Toni Babelony wrote:I still think it's an awesome set and it doesn't need any other set to contribute to it's awesomeness. It's just that awesome! Did I already say it's awesome, though it's a pity for those who want to combine it with other sets. So be it.

It will be more better if we can just use others sets with this one as well.

Why? It's standalone still an awesome set! WAIT! Did I already say the set was already awesome as it is? Hold on? Maybe I didn't... Maybe I should play a difficult game with this set in honour of it and the artists, coders and developers. Just to point out the sheer awesomeness of this set, as I will not tolerate that this set is being degraded as 'ruined'. It shows no respect or whatsoever to the people who worked hard on this set!

Toni Babelony wrote:Why? It's standalone still an awesome set! WAIT! Did I already say the set was already awesome as it is? Hold on? Maybe I didn't... Maybe I should play a difficult game with this set in honour of it and the artists, coders and developers. Just to point out the sheer awesomeness of this set, as I will not tolerate that this set is being degraded as 'ruined'. It shows no respect or whatsoever to the people who worked hard on this set!

I say it is as good as any other set.

Draakon wrote: ... disabling other sets ...

Rest assured, the next update will no longer disable other train sets ... I did get the message ...

andythenorth wrote: ... evil thoughts ...

It's Evil 2, that I'm worried about. It's bad enough to come constantly across topics about “Why are all my trains pink ?” I don't want any more of that.

BTW, if you load the windows grf, when you should load the DOS grf is no longer a problem for the CanSet; it now issues a polite message that you should load the other one if you get it wrong.

... I personally would like to have other rail vehicle options available. ...

Rest assured, the next update will have for you and a few others such an option available; regardless whether Open Devs have a solution or not.

... if a player tries to mix vehicles in those sets with CanSet vehicles, then they would get a message "This vehicle type can not be used with this locomotive" ...

When I evaluated that feature; I have tried many options, spent many hours on it, but unfortunately I couldn't come up with a proper solution to make things work in all cases. When I reached the wagon liveries, I gave up. The result is what you've got ATM with v0.3e. Some of that work is still in the set, it's just not used.

Ammler wrote: ... I guess, you just check if the patch "engine pool" is activated, ...

Yes, I do, but if that switch were split into vehicle types, then you could have shared road, air and sea sets plus one train set, the CanSet. Let's wait for Open Devs to make up their mind how to fix the situation. It has been suggested.

Toni Babelony wrote: ... Shabang! Smack in the face! All your hard work has been in vain! Artists, coders en developers, you may go home now. ...

Thank you, shall I come back ?

Let's face it ... a few weeks ago ... no body was moaning and groaning, about the fact that there was only one single lonely train set possible. Now, of a sudden, everybody wants fifty of them at the same time.

Has anybody actually played a game with a dozen activated train sets ? ... and liked the experience ?

I suggest, we stop complaining about this unwanted feature and wait patiently until a solution emerges. We all made suggestions, let's give these a chance to develop into something useful. That'll give me time to work on v0.3f instead of responding to posts ...

OzTransLtd wrote:Let's face it ... a few weeks ago ... no body was moaning and groaning, about the fact that there was only one single lonely train set possible. Now, of a sudden, everybody wants fifty of them at the same time.

What did you expect then? It happens with any other new feature.

Has anybody actually played a game with a dozen activated train sets ? ... and liked the experience ?

Yes i have and i say the experience is cool.

Draakon, I have too.. And currently faced some problems with extra high costs for wagons / very high running costs / other things you might've noted before with trams and George's LV

That currently purely depends on what train set you have loaded last.

If you've got two grfs which change base costs, then only the overlapping one would be changed by the higher priority grf (which again would screw up the costs of the other set).. And if only one set has base costs modified, then it still screws up the other set.. And please, let's not spam the canadian set thread anymore.
I think they have done great work and of what I've heard, it's truly impossible to mix canadian wagons with another train set. (If you knew sth more about grf coding (opposite: playing) you would understand that too.)

Well, I do not understand you, Draakon, if you like to use the set in the old way, just don't update to "e". No need to blame the set and specially the artists, I agree with Toni. (Do not need to repeat it

OzTransLtd, I think your reaction of the engine pool wasn't timed well, it is still in development and not available in stable releases, you make it now harder to test the feature with your set.

Greets
Ammler

P.S. We are preparing a 2. WWOTTDGD with many sets and are thinking about balancing etc. (different sets per company) That game will also prove, how usable the feature for trainsets will be...

P.S.2: This feature is not only good for combining different sets, also the Empty Train of LA is very nice for eyecandy games: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=666951#p666951

Drakkon, do you ever have anything positive to say?

Regarding the engine pool patch, I'd like to see a larger Canadian set personally, but at the moment, it's not going to happen.

While there is a possibiity of add-on packs in the future, that's not an option right now.

Engine Pool would be handy for a global multiplayer game (North America, Japan, England and Europe for example), and I know developers want their trains to be used in a realistic manner. I've used Enginepool on my 'Archipelago' map to use English locos with US rolling stock. It's not unrealistic at all, but it's not the norm.

The one set I'd like to see this one compatible with is the USSet. US and Canadian trains are interlinked, so seeing a BN SD40-2 mixed with a couple of CNR units wouldn't be abnormal, but I'm not going to have US liveries in the Canset (or vice versa)


ID's in the Canset were originally designed around the USSet, and it was designed to use parts of it while Canset was still in development. Now that the Canset can stand on its own, it no longer needs the USSet, but as stated before, the option would be nice to have.

Personally, I'd like to concentrate on getting the main set complete before worrying about compatibility with any other set.

DanMacK wrote:Engine Pool would be handy for a global multiplayer game (North America, Japan, England and Europe for example), and I know developers want their trains to be used in a realistic manner. I've used Enginepool on my 'Archipelago' map to use English locos with US rolling stock. It's not unrealistic at all, but it's not the norm.

Realism here, realism there. Can we stop the realistic talk? This is a game you know.

It's the set maker's choice what he wants, when he wants, how he wants and if he wants. You can't tell them what to do, if they don't like it.. Y'know they are not getting paid for it.. They do it for their own fun, not even Yours.. Ok, maybe a bit for yours, but that is so small amount. And if he wants to, he can just disable the whole set for OpenTTD, and you STILL can't blame him for anything.. It's not like he HAS to develop the set.. When he wants, he just might've give up too, and you STILL can't say anything about it..

What about creating your own, non-realistic set and be happy with it..

Draakon wrote:

DanMacK wrote:Engine Pool would be handy for a global multiplayer game (North America, Japan, England and Europe for example), and I know developers want their trains to be used in a realistic manner. I've used Enginepool on my 'Archipelago' map to use English locos with US rolling stock. It's not unrealistic at all, but it's not the norm.

Realism here, realism there. Can we stop the realistic talk? This is a game you know.

Yes, and a big part of the modding community wants to have it realistic, guess who wins...

XeryusTC wrote:Yes, and a big part of the modding community wants to have it realistic, guess who wins...

And guess who loses...

Using a set realistically is a choice - that choice can be made by the player even if the set is open to "unrealism". If the set has been coded to enforce realism, then the players who dont care for realism, but just want to play with a fun train set, they have no choice.

Since all these people love their realism so much, then I hope the set will enforce:
1) Maximum breakdown rates. Breakdowns are realistic.
2) Engines never persist, and must be replaced at the end of their operating life with a new replacement design. Rebuying the old design should not be allowed.

Of course we know that even "realism" players dont play realistically. So drop the fetish with it, will ya?

They have.

realism and REALISM FTW are different storys.. realism is just not having way too unrealistic things and REALISM FTW is having everything as realistic as possible.. And it's set's maker choice if he wants to enforce realism/REALISM FTW or not..

In addition to that rule that <4 word posts are spam, I agree that they have an option, but that is simply not using the set NOT whining here all the time

richk67 wrote: [...] Of course we know that even "realism" players dont play realistically. So drop the fetish with it, will ya?

<Sigh> Seems there´s still a misunderstanding about "realism" from your side, Rich. O/c, this is a game, it´s not reality (whatever this means), BUT! Just compare vanilla TTD with TTDPatch or OTTD and you´ll know what we´re talking about.


This is just a quick look into TTDPatch´s manual and I´m sure I´ve forgotten many game improvements which add to more "realism":

- more realistic acceleration, curve and mountain handling
- new vehicle graphics
- real liveries instead of player colour
- animated vehicles
- heavier freight trains
- train refitting
- livery override
- multi headed engines
- powered wagons
- wagon speed limits
- variable length vehicles
- feeder service
- build on slopes
- enable snow in the temperate climate
- CustomBridgeHeads
- HigherBridges
- canals
- EnhanceTunnels
- ElectrifiedRailways / catenary
- presignals
- PBS
- RoutingRestrictions
- ProgrammableSignals
- SemaphoreSignals
- ThroughSignals
- Make different types of track cost differently
- OneWayRoads
- Trams
- more realistic ships
- custom graphics for stations
- FifoLoading
- GradualLoading
- IrregularStations
- custom graphics for town buildings
- control how towns grow
- new custom cargoes
- new custom industries
- MoreCurrenciesAndEuro
- Manage subsidiary companies
- MoreAnimation
- ...

All these inventions add "realism" to the game. Want screenshots?


So tell me, how many people on this forums are still playing vanilla TTD?

regards
Michael

Yeah, its a nice set, but .... no, stop, dont go there.... aaarrrghghhhghghgh! <-- last word on matter, honest!

[edit] Michael - we cross-posted, but I wont bite. Patch may have lots of "realism" options over and above OTTD - maybe that is why "realism" players play TTDP with all its set restrictions, and less-strict "realism" OTTD players prefer a more "game" experience. It is as I said before a matter of philosophy. I am firmly in the "its a game, its unrealistic, its more like a trainset - and as my trainset, I'll mix and match for bizarre combos." Fine for me, but would grate with others. My objection, if you hadnt guessed, is over being forced to accept a restriction on what other sets it works with. That takes away from my "game" experience, which is sad.

"Your mileage may differ" ... and clearly does. End?

richk67 wrote:"Your mileage may differ" ... and clearly does. End?

Well, yes. I think we´ve spoiled this thread already too much, with interesting yet OT details. O/c we´ll go on some day in a better suited thread, presumably in the OTTD section.

regards
Michael

OzTrainsLtd: I've followed the whole discussion regarding the engine pool until now, and I can understand your negative feelings towards the current implementation of it because of the troubles for your set involved. I do hope though that you keep up the constructive discussion with the OpenTTD devs to finally get the pool to a point that doesn't break any features in .grf sets anymore. Until then, please do not feel discouraged by people who rant about your decision or even hack your grf to break the enginepool check.