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I would like the cabbages more if they didnt use the original f40 for it!!

kalvingp30fan wrote:I would like the cabbages more if they didnt use the original f40 for it!!

It was that or the cutting torch.. I think it is nice to see some sort of F40 still in amtrash paint.


If it was not for many commuter railroads rebuilding their older F40's over and over, the F40 would be about as extinct as the F3-F9.

A second life as an NPU well extend the life of the F40 to new rail fans in a twisted way. Also several still have Phase III paint. these might be the last items in P3 and to get a modern paint job. I will admidt that the Phase V looks good on them. The old Metroliner cab cars are still in use so I imagine these F40 NPU's will stay for a while.

I will agree that chopping the door in the side does ruin the look..

Plastikman wrote: Amtrak now calls them an NPU. or Non (No?) Powered Unit.

Correcting myself. They are rosterd as
NPCU Non-Powered Cab Unit

NPCU #90200-90413
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type: NPCU (former F40PH/PHR) Non-Powered Cab Unit
Built: Converted from F40PH locomotives, Amtrak Beech Grove, by 1997 (90221, 90224)
Built: Converted from F40PH/PHR locomotives, Amtrak Beech Grove, by 1999 (90200, 90208, 90215, 90218, 90219, 90222, 90225, 90229, 90230, 90251, 90252, 90253, 90368)
Built: Converted from F40PH locomotive, Amtrak Beech Grove, 1999 to 2000 (90220)
Built: Converted from F40PH/PHR locomotives, Amtrak Beech Grove, 1999 to 2001 (90213, 90214, 90250)
Built: Converted from F40PHR locomotives, Amtrak (Beech Grove?), 2001 (90340)
Built: Converted from F40PHR locomotive, Amtrak Beech Grove, 2007 (90278)
Built: Converted from F40PH locomotive, Amtrak Beech Grove, 2008 (90413)
Engine: None
Transmission: None
Renumbering: 90 prefix added to former running number


Despite being un-powered, NPCUs are maintained at locomotive shops and are still considered as part of the locomotive fleet.

NPCUs work as cab cars on push pull trains on the Downeaster and Cascades Services and on some services in the Mid-West.
From February 2006 one NPCU has been operating on Surfliner 799/798.

All NPCUs except those converted for the Pacific Northwest are fitted with roller shutter doors to allow the former engine compartment to be used for baggage.

Those converted for the Pacific Northwest (90230, 90250 to 90253, 90340) have a similar conversion to allow the engine compartment to be used for baggage but with a different door arrangement (no roller shutter). They are painted in Cascades livery to match the Talgo sets that they normally run with. As the Talgo sets have their own baggage area, these NPCUs are not normally used for baggage.

90220 was originally allocated to the Pacific Northwest, but was replaced by 90340 in 2001.
90208 moved from the Midwest to Surfliners in late 2005/early 2006.

Overhauls of these units commenced in late 2005 at Albany-R NY. The first three were repainted in Phase III while later overhauls at Albany have been repainted in Phase V. Those allocated to the Downeaster continue to have Downeaster markings. 90221 was repainted to Phase V following wreck repair at Beech Grove.

278 and 413 were moved from storage at Bear DE to Beech Grove in late 2006 for conversion to NPCU. 90278 was completed in mid-2007 and in Midwest service November 2007 to January 2008, moving to Seattle for Cascades service in January 2008. 90413 was completed in January 2008 and in Midwest service in April 2008.

90278 is fitted with an auxillary air compressor.

90230 moved from Cascades to Midwest services in August 2008.

In August 2008 90225 was fitted with satellite tv transmitting antennas for use for live tv programming for ABC during mid September 2008. Most of the roof section was removed and two covered antennas fitted. After the assignment in mid-September the uplink equipment was removed and the unit returned to Beech Grove. It returned to Midwest service by November 2008.

========
MW - Chicago Mid-West Pool
90200, 90215, 90218, 90219, 90221, 90222, 90224, 90225, 90229, 90230, 90368, 90413
Operate on Push Pull services from Chicago (and until mid-2009 on the Heartland Flyer). Some are ITCS fitted for some Michigan services.

========
DE - Downeaster Pool (Boston MA)
90213, 90214, 90220
Operate on the Downeaster Push Pull services between Boston North and Portland ME. Two are normally in traffic at any one time with a third spare at Boston Southampton Street.

========
CS - Pacific Northwest Cascades Pool (Seattle WA)
90250 to 90253, 90278, 90340
Operate on the Cascades Talgo services in the Pacific Northwest.

========
PS - Pacific Surfliner Pool (Los Angeles CA)
90208
Operates on Surfliner 799/798.

========



Table key: Running Number..Paint Scheme...Operating Pool..Maintenance Base

90200 V MW CHI * Midwest
90208 V PS LAX Pacific Surfliner 799/798
90213 DV DE BOS Downeaster
90214 DV DE BOS Downeaster
90215 V MW CHI * Midwest
90218 V MW CHI * Midwest
90219 III MW CHI * Midwest
90220 DV DE BOS Downeaster
90221 V MW CHI Midwest
90222 III MW CHI * Midwest
90224 V MW CHI Midwest
90225 V MW CHI * Midwest
90229 IV MW CHI Heartland Flyer
90230 P2 MW CHI ** Midwest
90250 P2 CS SEA ** Cascades
90251 P2 CS SEA ** Cascades
90252 P2 CS SEA ** Cascades
90253 P2 CS SEA ** Cascades
90278 V CS SEA Cascades
90340 P2 CS SEA ** Cascades
90368 III MW CHI Midwest
90413 V MW CHI Midwest

* - ITCS fitted for Michigan services
** - No roller shutter door



NPCU Paint Schemes:
Phase III (repainted Albany-Ren. Feb 2006 retaining Phase III): 90219
Phase III (repainted retaining Phase III, in part in Oct 2004 at New Orleans and fully at Albany-Ren. in Nov 2005): 90222
Phase III (repainted Albany-Ren. Dec 2005 retaining Phase III): 90368
Phase IV: 90229
Phase V (repainted Albany-Ren. from Phase III): 90200(2006), 90215(2007), 90225(2008)
Phase V (repainted Beech Grove from Phase III, 2006): 90221, 90224
Phase V (repainted Albany-Ren. from Phase III, 2006; repainted again from fire damage, early 2007): 90218
Phase V (converted and repainted from Phase III, mid 2007): 90278
Phase V (converted and repainted from Phase III, late 2007): 90413
Phase V (repainted Los Angeles from Phase III, 2008): 90208
Phase V with Downeaster markings (DV) (repainted Albany-Ren. from Downeaster Phase IV, 2006): 90213
Phase V with Downeaster markings (DV) (repainted Albany-Ren. from Downeaster Phase IV, 2007): 90220
Phase V with Downeaster markings (DV) (repainted Albany-Ren. from Downeaster Phase IV, 2008): 90214
Cascades(Modified 2004 -"Amtrak Cascades" markings on side): 90252
Cascades(Modified 2005 -"Amtrak Cascades" markings on side): 90230, 90250, 90251, 90253, 90340
The now extinct Downeaster Phase IV scheme included Downeaster logos on the nose and sides on 90213 and 90214, while 90220 had Downeaster logos on the sides and Amtrak logos on the nose.



Note** as of january 2010, there are still 9 FP40PH's on the Amtrak Roster. # 401 - 409. all are Stored at Bear DE except #406. it is rumored to be stored at Beech Grove IN.
They all wear Phase IV or V paint and are "stored operational"

Who knows the fate of these...? they will probably be chopped up for cabbages or sold for scrap. they make poor MoW or switchers due to visability.
Maybe if this St. Louis HighSpeed project takes place, they will be called to step up as NPCU's or cabbaages... maybe they'll be called into service like the some of the stored P40's (unlikely).


29 of P40's were stored. In mid 2009, 15 of the 29 were slated for overhaul and return too long distance service by 2011. As of right now, over half the the returning units have left for the shop. Im not sure if they are now P42 specs or still P40's. I'm not sure if they have started their second life yet.

13 of 15 were still wearing Phase IV, it would be intresting to see if they get repainted or stay phase IV after the overhaul.


The rest of the original 44 P40's have been sold to CDOT, NJT or scrapped. 2 were leased to NS to test some high speed freight. I dont think that went over to well...

Thanks Pasticman, for all the info you've collected. So do you think the new train they're talking about will look like the Amtrak stuff that exists now? Or would it be a whole new train? Hmmm. I wonder. Would be nice to see something good looking like the Red Thaylia train. I don't think I spelled that right.

Thalys? unlikely.... unless of course you mean something else.

Might be nice to see some F59PHIs instead of the P42s. I like the idea of the separate HEP generator myself- that lets the prime mover idle when not in use rather than screaming away at 900 rpm constantly.

Also, in this age of video cameras, etc., why in the name of common sense aren't high speed locomotives run "long hood forward" with the cab safely at the back and a full-spectrum HD video camera in the nose connected to a 72" plasma screen in the cab?

GE wants to build high speed (higher than the 110 mph of the P42s) locomotives, but they want the US Federal government to ante up the cash for the R&D and prototypes. Greedy sons-a-guns- GE has become what Ayn Rand called a "looter company."

How about a cowl version of something like an EMD SD70ACe (C-C)or a GE ES44C4 (A1A-A1A) with radial-steered trucks and high-speed gearing? Put the crew nice and safe at the back of the locomotive, streamline the nose with a center headlight and camera and an impact-attenuator "pilot" and you'd have a world-beater without all the dev costs.

noofnoof wrote:Thalys? unlikely.... unless of course you mean something else.

Yes, Thalys is what I meant. Thanks...

Surely a Thalys train would require a hell of a lot of new infrastructure...

and electricity something I think is lacking...

Yet another victim of the destruction of America's rail network between 1929 and 1980- electrification on most US railroads. Some started electrification, but were stopped either by the Great Depression or by WWII, and then finished off by over-regulation and the Interstate Highway System.

The Pennsylvania Railroad never did complete electrification all the way from NYC to Chicago- they never even connected Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. The Broadway Limited traded its GG1s for obsolete K4s Pacifics (later E8 diesels) at Harrisburg, PA. Conrail tore down the PRR's main line electrification across most of PA.

The "Milwaukee Road" against all advice and evidence abandoned its electrification instead of expanding it in 1973- just in time for the Arab Oil Embargo, and the resulting financial disaster helped sink the company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_ ... rification

The Great Northern RR's 1909 electrified division in Washington state from Wenatchee to Skykomish included the 7.8 mile (12.5 km) Cascade Tunnel. The catenary was torn down in 1956. Today, BNSF is having problems with ventilation in that same tunnel, which limits train frequency, and is considering electrification as a solution.

noofnoof wrote:and electricity something I think is lacking...

To be fair, even if they had electrification, the line would still need mega upgrading!

Hard to blame the policymakers of 1940-80 really, as it was thought rail was a sunset industry. This is as true in the US as elsewhere (rare for the US, which is usually totally different to everyone else!).