3d ottd

danharibo · Post by **danharibo** » 28 Jun 2006 15:39

That is what cULLING IS FOR

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 28 Jun 2006 21:10

Please doN'T SHOUT.

Even if you don't start until halfway throUGH THE SENTENCE.

Post by **Dave** » 28 Jun 2006 21:14

Bloody hypocrite

.

Antonio_NL · Post by **Antonio_NL** » 29 Jun 2006 09:12

cant we make instead of an 3D game susch an rotation like in locomotion??

Sorry for my englisch

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 29 Jun 2006 12:56

LoMo style rotation will be available when the 32bpp is ready IIRC.

Antonio_NL · Post by **Antonio_NL** » 30 Jun 2006 10:55

when is 32 bit TTD ready then?
iam not so lang on this forum.

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 30 Jun 2006 11:02

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 30 Jun 2006 18:56

"When it's done"
Says enough.

Antonio_NL · Post by **Antonio_NL** » 30 Jun 2006 19:47

thats also what thef sad about duke nuken forever, that game is anounst sins 1998.

proudmoore · Post by **proudmoore** » 01 Jul 2006 19:42

XeryusTC wrote:"When it's done"
Says enough.

Only hopefully in a slightly quicker way!

Dextro · Post by **Dextro** » 01 Jul 2006 20:12

Antonio_NL wrote:when is 32 bit TTD ready then?
iam not so lang on this forum.

Actually bobingabout said it right: "ages" since openttd is already a 32 bit aplication... now 32bpp graphics will be ready when they are ready hehehe

SirkoZ · Post by **SirkoZ** » 01 Jul 2006 20:48

Ichi wrote:3D will probably screw up the gameplay. If you run a 512x512 map and connect all the industries your pc will start lagging in 2D, let alone 3D. So you wouldn't be able to work on big maps because it's simply not doable with these computers.

Nope - if you'd use OpenGL for 2D it would run quite nicely...
For bigger maps/many objects you'd have to have more RAM and for many moving objects you'd have to have a very good pathfinder, which YAPF appears to be.

tempus_46_2 · Post by **tempus_46_2** » 02 Jul 2006 08:26

Ichi wrote:3D will probably screw up the gameplay. If you run a 512x512 map and connect all the industries your pc will start lagging in 2D, let alone 3D. So you wouldn't be able to work on big maps because it's simply not doable with these computers.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but on a PC with a half decent 3D card, wouldn't the GPU be doing all of the rendering work, which it is optimised for? Example, Black and White 2 runs on a GeForce 4. This of course does mean that if, god forbid, someone does make a 3D OTTD, the only pc's that will lag are ones with old or no 3D cards.

XeryusTC · Post by **XeryusTC** » 02 Jul 2006 09:41

tempus_46_2 wrote:
Ichi wrote:3D will probably screw up the gameplay. If you run a 512x512 map and connect all the industries your pc will start lagging in 2D, let alone 3D. So you wouldn't be able to work on big maps because it's simply not doable with these computers.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but on a PC with a half decent 3D card, wouldn't the GPU be doing all of the rendering work, which it is optimised for? Example, Black and White 2 runs on a GeForce 4. This of course does mean that if, god forbid, someone does make a 3D OTTD, the only pc's that will lag are ones with old or no 3D cards.

That totally depends on shader and fallback implementation, a graphics card that supports SM 3.0 can do more if shaders are implemented, a GeForce 4 OTOH can't do anything with those advanced shaders and the CPU has to do more jobs. There are some jubs like texture splatting that can take a huge amount of CPU cycles, but with the right shaders this will be done on the GPU and you can have a good graphics card with a bad CPU to still do the same.

Ethical · Post by **Ethical** » 13 Jul 2006 05:58

Hey, let's make Tetris in 3D! It'll make a HUGE difference to how much you enjoy dropping bricks to clear lines! No, really!

Heh, sorry, someone beat you to the 3D version of tetris.. I played it atleast 10 years ago on a monocrome display.

Firstly, I think it is a project which would be fun.. yes fun. Most people are busy complaining about how it won't bring anything to the game or how it won't possibly run on thier old pentium II's.

Ok, for other people saying how horribly slow it'll run with the complex models.. Of course it wouldn't be practical with high poly models, but models can be simplified and rendered maps from the orginals can be skinned over giving the impression of detail. Say for example you could drop a building down to 10 polys, of which about half are rendered at a given time(line of sight obscures the other polys so they are not drawn) Lets say there are 1000 buildings on your screen, thats 5k polys.. Sounds like good numbers to me.

I've had fun in the past coding games, first it was ascii roguelike games, then I got into sprites, and now, with 3D games mainstream and plenty of resources to build them, I don't see why I shouldn't be using my efforts to develop 3D environments. With little to no moving parts, a 3D project of this nature doesn't require any complex rigging or manipulation of mesh shapes. Only phisics are vehicle speeds which are already coded.

On a slightly related note, anyone coding this would then also familiarise themselfs with the ottd code. Studying code from others is realy good practice for anyone wanting to develop thier abilities as a coder.

There should be more "sound's like a fun learning experience" or "Hey, here is some stuff we(existing coders) toyed around with when we were comming up with some tt 3D concept.." and less people worrying about who is going to be using thier own time and patience, even if it comes to nought, what has the average OTTD user lost?

dphoenix · Post by **dphoenix** » 13 Jul 2006 06:33

SirkoZ wrote:
Ichi wrote:3D will probably screw up the gameplay. If you run a 512x512 map and connect all the industries your pc will start lagging in 2D, let alone 3D. So you wouldn't be able to work on big maps because it's simply not doable with these computers.
Nope - if you'd use OpenGL for 2D it would run quite nicely...
For bigger maps/many objects you'd have to have more RAM and for many moving objects you'd have to have a very good pathfinder, which YAPF appears to be.

If you ever implement OpenGL-rendered OTTD, please let it be possible to have the software rendering as well. My computer doesn't have OpenGL support, so I couldn't run the game anymore then.

metalangel · Post by **metalangel** » 13 Jul 2006 11:36

Ethical wrote:
metalangel wrote:Hey, let's make Tetris in 3D! It'll make a HUGE difference to how much you enjoy dropping bricks to clear lines! No, really!
Heh, sorry, someone beat you to the 3D version of tetris.. I played it atleast 10 years ago on a monocrome display.

You've missed my point. I played a 3D version of Tetris more like 16 years ago (it was called 'Weltris') - my point was that it being in 3D with spangly graphics had absolutely zero impact on the actual gameplay. Stuff being 3D does not magically make things more fun.

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 13 Jul 2006 11:57

must be really old not to support OGL... knowing the OTTD crew, it'd be mandatory to have it, although, having it optional is entirely possable.

Ethical · Post by **Ethical** » 13 Jul 2006 12:28

I didn't miss any points O.o I know you are saying it's a waste of time, won't bring anything new to the game etc, etc.

I just don't consider them useful or constructive, and in a way, your just trolling a guy who like many people at some stage has put forward interest about a 3D version of the game. Remember the Source is open source, so anyone can do whatever they want with it aslong as they don't use is abusively or for profit, personal credit, etc.

So as this thread is about building a 3D version, lets keep things constructive and on topic, and the topic isn't "Can someone please talk me out of wanting to go out of my way into trying to implement a 3D version"

dphoenix: If a 3D version were to be made, it wouldn't replace the existing game, would have the same base code.. if possable,, and be an alternate version in parallel to the existing sprite based version. We arn't part of OTTD development so none of this will effect the official development or replace the main branch which I will assume will keep on working towards the 32bit conversion.

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 13 Jul 2006 16:52

I think 3d would add a lot to the game. Plus I don't think it will be very difficult. And I don't believe it will slow the game down at all, it will probably speed it up.

The approach I would take would be in steps:
1) convert the current sprite drawing routines to a 3d engine using quads (so it will still be 2d but hardware accelerated)
2) allow vehicles to be represented by a rendered 3d model instead of a set of sprites, whitout altering anything else. Possibly also allow this for buildings. If there is no model, use the sprites.
3) reprogram movement and turning to allow smooth rotation of the models. If you're not doing step 4, draw new curved track sprites to represent this.
4) if wanted replace the rest of the game (landscape, tracks, water) by 3d modelling. This is the only thing that could slow down the game.

This is what I would do, unfortunately I don't have the time to do any of it

oh and off topic: the extra dimension in 3d tetris had an enormous impact on the gameplay. It's way more difficult to fill in a plane instead of a line. I am ok at tetris, but totally suck at 3d tetris.

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