NEW DEFAULT TRAINSET

Mad Dog McKill · Post by **Mad Dog McKill** » 19 Nov 2004 04:44

MeusH wrote:TT code is copyrighted, too. But OTTD doesn't have 100% new code, does it?

If I am not wrong, both games are written in totally different type of code.

So Openttd is a totally rewritten game.

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 19 Nov 2004 09:23

i once made a set that was simply a graphics override of the train vehicles in trg1r.grf, ATM i am editing them (since my skills in drawing have increased) to make them look better, the are totally original not based on anything in perticular, but as anyone who has seen my work would know that i try to make things look as realistic and believable as possible. They do show some similarities to real trains, but you do need insperation from somewhere. Perhaps when I'm finished, hopefully in the next few days, I could post them here and let everyone see if they want to use them?

Joker · Post by **Joker** » 19 Nov 2004 11:16

MeusH wrote:I agree with the independence from TTD, but calling it copyright... You haven't re-done whole coding part, did you?

I see it this way:
Now if you want to play OTTD, you must download OTTD from the net AND have copy of old TTD because of the graphics. The TTD graphics cannot be included in OTTD because they're copyrighted.
The point of new graphics is to get rid of this, so that you can download OTTD from net, install and play without needing any files from original TTD.

Correct?

ThorRune · Post by **ThorRune** » 19 Nov 2004 14:38

Joker, yes

Mad Dog McKill wrote:So Openttd is a totally rewritten game.

No, its a translated game.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 19 Nov 2004 14:39

Yes, and it is why it should be called independence, not copyright

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 19 Nov 2004 14:45

right well now that we've decided we HAVE to have a new trainset (courtesy of copyright and a understandable desire for independence), who wants to figure out what we put into one?

I'd suggest a thread in OTTD suggestions or OTTD general forum asking players what trains they want to see a new generic trainset. Would probably be long winded, but an answer would appear eventually.

Mind remember, that there are going to be new track-types too. Another reason for a new trainset, because we'd want default trains that run on them....

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 19 Nov 2004 18:49

I suggest that the Devs be prepared to make a decision, and announce it as "The way it's going to be." Unless someone with somesemblance of authority makes a decision, there is little chance that we commoners will manage to come to a consensus. Besides, it's not like there aren't other train/RV/etc sets out there.

KAH · Post by **KAH** » 20 Nov 2004 02:10

Has anyone actually properly investigated OTTD's legal code? As in asked a qualified lawyer who knows Swedish law on this (that's where it was rewritten, right?)?

I think you'd have some difficulty proving where the code comes from anyway, and I really doubt CS or Atari will waste money trying this in court, especially as this is a free project run by people who love the game.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 20 Nov 2004 06:50

KAH wrote:I really doubt Atari will waste money trying this in court, especially as this is a free project run by people who love the game.

You think corporations care about that!? I want some of what you're smoking!

Free doesn't help Atari's bottom line.

But Atari (or who ever owns TTD copyright, ISTR Owen(?) saying they had denied ownership) would probably go after the TTD download sites first, though rights to the OTTD codebase wouldn't be far behind. They could probably stop development (Microsoft did this to the ASF transcoding in VirtualDub 1.3c (Google knows all) and earlier), though how much of the codebase could be deGPLed is questionable.
In any case, DNSStuff reports that SourceForge is hosted in .ca.us, and most download servers are also in .us, so .us copyright laws would probably apply, regardless of the location of the authors.

IANAL, of course.

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 20 Nov 2004 08:27

i think that if we are to have a new set, it should be totally original and not a real railway set, if we can make a "made up" set look realistic and believable it would be great.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 20 Nov 2004 09:12

IP only applies to the names (could we just insert a notice "Train names may be TM or (R) their creators and/or owners"?) so we could use real stats, but change the names.

More development mess:
Massive thought is required before moving any of the four (rail, road, ship, plane) TTD num-vehicle-types limits, to prevent breakage of TTDPatch GRFs.

Is there an appropriate place to put my thoughts on how to remove TTD limits without breaking TTDPatch GRFs? If so, and my input is wanted, let me know, so I don't keep polluting other places with it. If my input is not wanted, tell me to shut up, and I'll do my best to do so.

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 20 Nov 2004 10:18

Or You Can Stick a Copywright Notice

The Vehicles in this game have real-life names, these names are respective Copywright of their manufacturers, and the license owners, these names are here so people can relate to the vehicles. We do not take any responsibilty if the vehicle crashes into a train in game, or anything else disastrous.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 20 Nov 2004 11:56

I hope there won't be Beoning, TJV, Vulvo in TT... There were some games (need to pay for them) with wicked names, just not to pay those industries... But since it is a FAN MOD, which is FREE, we don't have to do anything, because we are NOT AN ORGANISATION.

Archonix · Post by **Archonix** » 20 Nov 2004 12:14

There does need to be a worry about that. A lot of those names are trademarks. A company has to defend against infringement of its trademark otherwise it looses it. In reality they can let things like OTTD mods and the like go by the wayside, though if there's even a hint of a risk that they'll loose their trademark because of this they'll sue anyone and everyone to make sure they keep it.

I wouldn't worry, but I would remain vigilant.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 20 Nov 2004 14:06

Nah, we'll make free advertisement for them, and I'm repeating: we are not a company, OTTD is free, and we are not writing anywhere "Boening ****", "TGV for nazis", "Volvo is a crap".

KAH · Post by **KAH** » 20 Nov 2004 18:19

DaleStan wrote: You think corporations care about that!? I want some of what you're smoking!

Free doesn't help Atari's bottom line.

Atari will care about wasting large sums of money on sueing people who can't pay them damages, I should think. It would be a lot harder for them to pretend they don't know about OTTD if someone was trying to make a profit off it; also, there might actually be some money to be found in that case.

But Atari (or who ever owns TTD copyright, ISTR Owen(?) saying they had denied ownership) would probably go after the TTD download sites first, though rights to the OTTD codebase wouldn't be far behind. They could probably stop development (Microsoft did this to the ASF transcoding in VirtualDub 1.3c (Google knows all) and earlier), though how much of the codebase could be deGPLed is questionable.
In any case, DNSStuff reports that SourceForge is hosted in .ca.us, and most download servers are also in .us, so .us copyright laws would probably apply, regardless of the location of the authors.

IANAL, of course.

How would the location of some of the download mirrors affect the juristiction in effect over the code? AFAIK any and all possibly illegal actions took place in Sweden, so if they'll have to pursue it there. The original code is probably copyrighted (BTW, is there actually a registered copyright on it?) in the UK, so some litigation could end up there as well, but not in the US. That's a good thing, because I'm certain the methods used to write OTTD are illegal in the States, but I'm not so sure about Sweden.

Of course, they'll still have to prove the code is "stolen". Might be hard, especially if some of the early code is gone.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 20 Nov 2004 18:23

OTTD must remain with status of TTD modification, and there must be info about Chris Sawyer in the "about" box.

Anyway, Chris Sawyer, who made TT, will be certainly proud of this mod.

Prof. Frink · Post by **Prof. Frink** » 20 Nov 2004 18:26

I doubt it, as he doesn't like TTDPatch.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 20 Nov 2004 18:55

Doesn't like it? Nah...
he probably thought people who upgrade TTD wants to beat him...

Anyway, if we put the name in "about" box and if we won't take money for the OTTD, everything would be good and legal, since it is a MOD

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 20 Nov 2004 19:49

Akalamanaia wrote:Or You Can Stick a Notice

The Vehicles in this game have real-life names, these names are respective Copywright of their manufacturers, and the license owners, these names are here so people can relate to the vehicles. We do not take any responsibilty if the vehicle crashes into a train in game, or anything else disastrous.

Come to think of it, doesn't LoMo do something like this? (What, you think I'm going to install it just to find out?)

I doubt the copyright issue will ever be resolved, but can we please let it die again, at the very least until someone talks to a copyright/intellectual property lawyer?

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