Transport Tycoon Forums

vear wrote:First Android, now this. It's interesting to see Linux hitting more and more end-users the way nobody in FLOSS communities expected a decade ago.

Without the end-users even knowing or caring.

Anybody else got a bunch of Steam coupons for Train Simulator? I got 10 coupons for 25% discount on several trains and tracks.

Yep, I got 10 25% coupons as well.

And I'm sure as hell I will care when my games will run properly like it's a console, yet it will be a PC with all benefits.

Transportman wrote:

vear wrote:First Android, now this. It's interesting to see Linux hitting more and more end-users the way nobody in FLOSS communities expected a decade ago.

Without the end-users even knowing or caring.

Indeed, several people down here thought that my Ubuntu with Gnome is Win8...
And their Galaxy phones aren't Android.

What's wrong with the general public ???

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Drury wrote:Special console-PC's for SteamOS made by many different manufacturers, including Valve themselves. I'm not sure what's the difference between this and a normal PC but I'm excited nonetheless.

Should be nothing, apart that it'll be more optimized for Steam network and gaming.

Drury wrote:...yet it will be a PC with all benefits.

I rather expect it to be a PC with all the disadvantages of consoles. ^^

Well, they said you will be able to build your own one, that implies SteamOS will run on any PC, and that you will be able to boot whichever system you prefer. Also, the official Valve ones will support mouse and keyboard, so that's another big advantage over consoles.

I'm afraid they won't run Windows all that smoothly, though. The whole thing is Gabe's war declaration to Microsoft, so it's safe to expect them to be harsh when it comes to anything Microsoft.

I mainly referred to the software point - it'll probably be pretty "closed". I seriously doubt Valve goes through all of this Linux pushing just to be going down as saints in the history, they're essentially after taking even more control of PC gaming (just like Sony or Microsoft do on their consoles) and that's something I certainly don't like. Steam is already bad enough by itself, doesn't need to dictate the rest of my OS :/

Although of course if it's a working replacement of stupid Windows most of us have been complaining about for the bigger part of the last 20 years without too much of a hidden agenda I'll gladly welcome our new Valve overlords - better than M$, probably, at least. Well, we'll see. ^^

I've been doing about 7 hours of homework nightly to get myself caught up in my classes. It's murder on my sleeping pattern.

Pyoro wrote:I mainly referred to the software point - it'll probably be pretty "closed". I seriously doubt Valve goes through all of this Linux pushing just to be going down as saints in the history, they're essentially after taking even more control of PC gaming (just like Sony or Microsoft do on their consoles) and that's something I certainly don't like. Steam is already bad enough by itself, doesn't need to dictate the rest of my OS :/

Although of course if it's a working replacement of stupid Windows most of us have been complaining about for the bigger part of the last 20 years without too much of a hidden agenda I'll gladly welcome our new Valve overlords - better than M$, probably, at least. Well, we'll see. ^^

If it's bad, nobody buys it, there are already better ways to play.

If it's not, it's not and all's well.

I don't really mind Valve assuming direct control of PC gaming. After all, that's what they've been doing for the past 10 years and I can't complain.

Pyoro wrote:I mainly referred to the software point - it'll probably be pretty "closed".

Hmm, the FAQ said it's source codes would be available for those who's into it.

Pyoro wrote:I mainly referred to the software point - it'll probably be pretty "closed". I seriously doubt Valve goes through all of this Linux pushing just to be going down as saints in the history, they're essentially after taking even more control of PC gaming (just like Sony or Microsoft do on their consoles) and that's something I certainly don't like. Steam is already bad enough by itself, doesn't need to dictate the rest of my OS :/

Although of course if it's a working replacement of stupid Windows most of us have been complaining about for the bigger part of the last 20 years without too much of a hidden agenda I'll gladly welcome our new Valve overlords - better than M$, probably, at least. Well, we'll see. ^^

I don't entirely agree. If you try to sell people a PC that can only really run one application (Steam, Steam games et al.) they'll tell you to get lost.
Given that, once you've physically given them the machine, there's realistically not much you can stop them doing with it, short of expensive and unpopular measures which would soon be cracked anyway.
Any offering they make has to be better value and more convenient to the customer than them buying a blank box and installing Linux and Steam on it themselves.

I don't think that they're trying to go down as saints in history.
They're doing it to make money by getting more Steam subscribers, and to make money by selling boxes.
What OS the boxes run doesn't matter that much, as long as it runs Steam, so why would you pay through the nose to have Windows put on them, when Linux is free?

Transportman wrote:

vear wrote:First Android, now this. It's interesting to see Linux hitting more and more end-users the way nobody in FLOSS communities expected a decade ago.

Without the end-users even knowing or caring.

They don't have to. Most of the world probably doesn't realise they use Windows either, but MS is happy about them as well.
Developers and their bosses in suits do know and care though. This makes code portability value more than it ever has. That's already a huge leap.

JGR wrote:I don't entirely agree. If you try to sell people a PC that can only really run one application (Steam, Steam games et al.) they'll tell you to get lost.

No, they'll tell you that they finally got rid of all that confusing "installing programs" stuff and they're happy with having their "freedom" removed. Otherwise people wouldn't buy iPhones when they could get Androids (or whatever).

And of course if it comes with pre-installed SteamOS that has all kind of DRM-phone-home-whatever restrictions (although as YNM said they'll apparently be removable) people still won't care. Like how they use Chrome on Windows, even though there's plenty of other browsers around that come with less dubious policies.

But, bottom-line, people don't care. And they won't start caring with S.OS unless it doesn't run, between then only for about 15 minutes before they'll forgot about it for the next Steam deals ^^

€: of course I expect that you'll be free to install Windows or any other compatible OS on those machines. My real concern isn't that it's technically restricted, but that we're going to slowly replace a Windows monopoly with a Valve monopoly (in gaming) and other services like gog.com or whatever become even less competitive. It's not a thought I like.

Casual gamers won't care (like they ever did), hardcore gamers will have the freedom to do whatever they want, install the SteamOS or not, or just continue running Steam client under Windows as usual and it will be kept updated. I trust Valve in this, as they do actually have a habit of updating software that should be considered obsolete from their business standpoint.

It's worth noting that Valve's core audience isn't casual gamers, though. Simply put, Steam users aren't dumb. If Valve starts abusing them, they'll buy an Xbox or abandon gaming completely, knowing there's no real future to it with even Valve cheating them. MS and Sony are still in play here, it's not like Valve's free to make whatever stupid mistakes they feel like making.

And about Valve pushing Microsoft out of PC gaming - in Gabe's words - what's not to like? I don't really think any of the value will be lost when people stop using Origin or Uplay. GOG will have to find a way to work with Linux, that's true, but I see it as a flexible enough environment.

But as much as I hate Microsoft it's not like they ever forced me to do use anything particular. Yes, they got fined over the IE, but I was always free to use Opera. And, really, and fully honestly, I'm almost completely satisfied with Win 7. There's a few things I don't like about it but it's really nothing compared to how stable it generally is - and how it's with a little care able to play every single game I own. Valve are the ones who "force" me to buy games with DRM, installing a pointless program I neither need nor want, not MS (well, there's GfWL but I think that's dead).

But, well, it's clearly too early to judge anything. Or at least I'm not informed enough on what Valve precisely plans on doing.

Managed to get myself locked out from my laptop, it can't find the OS anymore and fixmbr and stuff can't fix it, so now I'm using the option that always fixes everything, so on this great morning I''m reinstalling Windows.

Only because the topic has been brought up ...

Pyoro wrote: But, well, it's clearly too early to judge anything. Or at least I'm not informed enough on what Valve precisely plans on doing.

Nothing good I can tell you that ... I have been reading a lot the past couple of months.

It boils down to:

- Complete lock-in.
- Spying on you everywhere you go even when steam is not running, with the help of some really big players out there ... akamai amongst others.
- Not repecting your settings in general.
- Using chrome as underlying browser where you can not disable cookies, javascript and htmlcache leavin the door wide open for all kinds of crap to infest you.
- Speak too much truth and you are muted ... banned from steam discussions and thy delete all of your previous posts in the process.
- Not repecting your download speed settings.
- Not respecting your NO updating settings.
- Offline mode my ass, after two weeks it is done and you need to log on. besides that the store still works without problem and they do phone home anyway.
- Family sharing ... cool but they do not tell you that you are not able to play any of your games yourself while your friend gets you VACBanned. Anything your friend buys as DLC while playing your game is not transfered to you.
- Shipping broken games and not caring. all sales are final and when you do ask for a refund everything else gets locked in the meantime.
- They can even kick you out ofyour profile while stealing your titles ... without giving a reason.
- People get their inventories cleaned without reason ... so much items is not possible without doing something that is not correct. Right?
- Querying your installed programs (including installed OS updates) without even asking.
- Allowing minors to speculate on a market that fluctuates (illegal in my country).
- Non functioning support ... got a week or three?
- They are installed as root and change your system settings as they please.
- There is more ...

Don't get me started on them stealing your consumer rights and them changing developers licenses in regards or transfering your rights?
Heck you even do not get your licenses on your PC and forget seaching after the activation key ... they are unfindable in 99% of the cases.
I really hope they get a good beating with that german lawsuit that is comming, I really do.

As far as I am concerned they can keep their free OS and stick it where the sun don't shine.
And that steambox ... they asked three companies to make one ... neither of them has a contract as they will be building their own ... trolololol. They say that it will run all the games but again they are 'forgetting' to mention that your windows pc has to be running too and that then the game is streamed from there ... to do that you do not need to pay 1000 euros.

They will be announcing another thing today ... everybody speculates HL3 but they can give it to me for free ... not touching that s***, not even with a stick.

/rant over for now ... and yes I am angry ... very very angry
Checking some more of my licenses to see how many more I can legally transfer and of which they say you may not ... I found quite a few so far one of them FarCry3, all my HL1 versions and a few more.


ps:
If someone is interested in knowing who does what, when and where on your PC without too much fuss ... http://systemexplorer.net/

Mh, looks like my skepticism isn't completely unfounded. ^^; Although I'll still wait how it actually turns out at release (not that I'm planning to get it. It's just too much work, no point in changing a running Win 7 system right now...)

ChillCore wrote:Only because the topic has been brought up ...

Pyoro wrote: But, well, it's clearly too early to judge anything. Or at least I'm not informed enough on what Valve precisely plans on doing.

Nothing good I can tell you that ... I have been reading a lot the past couple of months.

It boils down to:

- Complete lock-in.
- Spying on you everywhere you go even when steam is not running, with the help of some really big players out there ... akamai amongst others.
- Not repecting your settings in general.
- Using chrome as underlying browser where you can not disable cookies, javascript and htmlcache leavin the door wide open for all kinds of crap to infest you.
- Speak too much truth and you are muted ... banned from steam discussions and thy delete all of your previous posts in the process.
- Not repecting your download speed settings.
- Not respecting your NO updating settings.
- Offline mode my ass, after two weeks it is done and you need to log on. besides that the store still works without problem and they do phone home anyway.
- Family sharing ... cool but they do not tell you that you are not able to play any of your games yourself while your friend gets you VACBanned. Anything your friend buys as DLC while playing your game is not transfered to you.
- Shipping broken games and not caring. all sales are final and when you do ask for a refund everything else gets locked in the meantime.
- They can even kick you out ofyour profile while stealing your titles ... without giving a reason.
- People get their inventories cleaned without reason ... so much items is not possible without doing something that is not correct. Right?
- Querying your installed programs (including installed OS updates) without even asking.
- Allowing minors to speculate on a market that fluctuates (illegal in my country).
- Non functioning support ... got a week or three?
- They are installed as root and change your system settings as they please.
- There is more ...

Don't get me started on them stealing your consumer rights and them changing developers licenses in regards or transfering your rights?
Heck you even do not get your licenses on your PC and forget seaching after the activation key ... they are unfindable in 99% of the cases.
I really hope they get a good beating with that german lawsuit that is comming, I really do.

As far as I am concerned they can keep their free OS and stick it where the sun don't shine.
And that steambox ... they asked three companies to make one ... neither of them has a contract as they will be building their own ... trolololol. They say that it will run all the games but again they are 'forgetting' to mention that your windows pc has to be running too and that then the game is streamed from there ... to do that you do not need to pay 1000 euros.

They will be announcing another thing today ... everybody speculates HL3 but they can give it to me for free ... not touching that s***, not even with a stick.

/rant over for now ... and yes I am angry ... very very angry
Checking some more of my licenses to see how many more I can legally transfer and of which they say you may not ... I found quite a few so far one of them FarCry3, all my HL1 versions and a few more.


ps:
If someone is interested in knowing who does what, when and where on your PC without too much fuss ... http://systemexplorer.net/

Nobody is forcing you to buy one. There are plenty of alternative vendors of boxes out there and you still play games on your preferred system setup.

JGR wrote: Nobody is forcing you to buy one.

True ...

That was just part of the list that the steam client is doing already now on my pc, can't imagine what they will do inside their own OS; don't want to find out neither to be honest.
Just finishing my games before deleting the whole bazaar and reformatting the drive too with their i: and u: and god knows what I am still missing ... and will only find out from checking their assert files.
No more steam for me ... at all, I shall prefer playing with rubber bands if they ever get the market for the full 100%.




Anyhoo ...
I wish these online drivers would stop braking when it's not needed ... it's costing me a fortune in headlights replacement.

Went to the doctors earlier, seems i've just about recovered from my latest depression bout. I just hope I manage to keep it gone this time!

In other news, I've rediscovered the game 'TERA', which has gone free to play since the last time I was on it early 2012. Much nicer to play free, although it seems to have attracted all the World of Warcraft kids whose mothers refuse to pay for it anymore.