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2) I would assume that the KO2 would be generated here on Earth, where neither oxygen nor energy are in particularly short supply.
I don't know how the oxygen density of KO2[0] compares to steel cylinders of compressed O2 gas, but I would guess that KO2 compares favorably.

[0] Here, I'm defining this as usable quantity (by mass or molecular count, not by volume) of O2 molecules per unit total mass, including any necessary containment (such as steel cylinders).

The energy source for the far future has already been decided.

And remember, this mod takes place after 3000 AD, today's technologies will seem mundane and primitive. The only thing i will allow to be "held over" thru the next millenium is nuclear fission as a source of energy, mostly because of its stability (due to long-term development and testing over a thousand years).

Again, oxygen is only for human survival; altho in the far future it will become easier to extract (from carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, for example), it will still remain primarily for the consumption of the human (and animal) population, which, i'm sure by this time, will be in the hundreds of billions. Since water is also relatively rare, a certain portion of the oxygen cargo will be used to produce water.

Why you guys keep going round and around on the feasibility of certain industries and energy sources is beyond me. One of the nice things about setting our mod into the far future is that we can pretend energy and other products will be easier to produce and technologies will arise to either streamline the process or make other techs obsolete. (This is why by the year 3000 computers as we know them will be archaic, just like abacuses are archaic compared to the modern computer.)

We don't have to have a degree in physics or chemistry to come up with ideas on making this mod fun AND feasible. Thanks, ddream, for your ideas, but let's develop the mod in the current state that OpenTTD is in. We can always port-and-add later. (Plus, i'm a bit skeptical of the new GUI viability; i'll let everyone else exterminate the bugs before i incorporate the eye candy. )

DaleStan wrote: 4KO2+2CO2 => 3O2 + 2K2CO3

Tut tut.. potassium oxide goes K2O

SirXavius wrote:The energy source for the far future has already been decided.

And remember, this mod takes place after 3000 AD, today's technologies will seem mundane and primitive. The only thing i will allow to be "held over" thru the next millenium is nuclear fission as a source of energy, mostly because of its stability (due to long-term development and testing over a thousand years).

Since water is also relatively rare, a certain portion of the oxygen cargo will be used to produce water.

Such and advanced civilization wouldnt have problems making water from H and O since those are two of the most common elements in universe

Why you guys keep going round and around on the feasibility of certain industries and energy sources is beyond me. One of the nice things about setting our mod into the far future is that we can pretend energy and other products will be easier to produce and technologies will arise to either streamline the process or make other techs obsolete. (This is why by the year 3000 computers as we know them will be archaic, just like abacuses are archaic compared to the modern computer.)

We don't have to have a degree in physics or chemistry to come up with ideas on making this mod fun AND feasible. Thanks, ddream, for your ideas, but let's develop the mod in the current state that OpenTTD is in. We can always port-and-add later. (Plus, i'm a bit skeptical of the new GUI viability; i'll let everyone else exterminate the bugs before i incorporate the eye candy. )

Hehe i quite agree.. go posting to the chem and physics topic!!! It's more appropiate than here!

Tut tut.. this is not potassium oxide, it is potassium hyperoxide, you make it by firing K in air. Not everything in chemistry is easy and logical. For example find oxidation number of every element in this two compounds: Ni(CO)4 and Na[Co(CO)4]. Answer in Ph/Ch topic to not to spam this topic.

When will this mod be coded?

SirXavius wrote:Why you guys keep going round and around on the feasibility of certain industries and energy sources is beyond me.

I thought I explained that in the last page - it's interesting. Far more interesting than the "something better was invented over 3,000 years" statement. We're talking about what might have been developed over the next 3,000 years, because (1) it's fun and (2) physics won't change.

Brianetta wrote:I thought I explained that in the last page - it's interesting. Far more interesting than the "something better was invented over 3,000 years" statement. We're talking about what might have been developed over the next 3,000 years, because (1) it's fun and (2) physics won't change.

Interesting? perhaps. Belongs here in this thread? No. I'd love your contributions, but not a discussion of physics. C'mon guys

Again, the future overpopulation of humans will require the relatively rare resource of water to NOT be used as fuel, especially when there are other less-demanded resources (it is the same mentality that keeps ethanol from becoming popular -- people instinctively wince at fuel MADE FROM THEIR FOOD).
If you're not good at futurist extrapolation, then contribute in other ways. We can't all be good at everything.

Now. Has anyone come up with graphics or coding solutions?

Overpopulation and water scarce-driven in 3000AD? I see the human race finding sollutions to that within 994 years.

Secondly: Nuclear fission? What about Nuclear fusion? Much safer.

Checkout this article: This is about waste management of fusion power, but if you are interested, please read the complete article.

I can continue about the possible genetic evolution of the human body and the role of money in 3000AD and beyond, but I won't.

SirXavius wrote: If you're not good at futurist extrapolation, then contribute in other ways. We can't all be good at everything.

It's alright, it is you mod and you decide how to carry it on but forums where made to talk and exchange ideas.. I repeat, this is your mod but if you spect people to help (and i will if you want me to) try to respect other peoples points of view.. Because as i've posted before we have different ideas that you and they aren't worse or ridiculous.. just ideas for this proyect You may take them or not and they can be great ones or less great but please respect them.
And now back on topic

As said i'd like to help.. As soon i'm back from holidays i want to learn to make graphics.. so i could give a hand to that as well as translating it to spanish

I think the developing should concentrate on making OTTD modable, not to program only one mod. This could open new possibilities like rome empire horse transport mod or inter planetary 3k passanger starship transport . My help could be Polish translation, grf coding and basic c coding.

No it isn't. First of all there is no full new grf support in OTTD. I want to add new strings, for example allow only one town, build trams, gondols change GUI or whatever i want. Iirc it is not possible.

He means a complete overhaul of the original game but leaving the engine intact. .grfs are just the looks.

Well, I think the Mars conversion .grf came as close to his idea.

SirXavious, water is apparently abundant in the Kuiper Belt. That just happens to be where Pluto is, so don't feel that it has to be a scarce commodity.

Mr. X wrote:.grfs are just the looks.

erm...

Mr. X wrote:He means a complete overhaul of the original game but leaving the engine intact. .grfs are just the looks.

/me points at the UKRS.

Well it's not a complete game overhaul with new sound, features and maybe even a few settings and stuff, the UKRS is big but not like it is a whole different game on the same engine. I think ddream ment a mod in the line of HalfLife mods or mods for the Quake 3 engine etc. That kind of mods.

Brianetta wrote:SirXavious, water is apparently abundant in the Kuiper Belt. That just happens to be where Pluto is, so don't feel that it has to be a scarce commodity.

With a human population in the hundreds of billions by the time of this mod's setting, i anticipate water being realized as finite AND relatively scarce (like oil, but humans in the next hundreds of years will realize that scarcity of water is FAR more important than scarcity of oil). It will be as important a commodity as oil is to us now (in our games).
In designing the set-up for this mod i had to decide which commodities we can play with, to make the mod fun, interesting, and feasible. Hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen are basic, necessary, and hold promise from where we stand now. Possible inventions like PlasmaSteel, Aqueflex, and cybernauts are plausible, and add complexity and "interestingness" to the mod. Processes like Kineto-nuclear power generation, the industrialization of magma, and planet carbonization, while maybe far-fetched, advance the story and keep it reasonable.

Mr. X wrote:Overpopulation and water scarce-driven in 3000AD? I see the human race finding sollutions to that within 994 years.

Secondly: Nuclear fission? What about Nuclear fusion? Much safer.

Checkout this article: This is about waste management of fusion power, but if you are interested, please read the complete article.

I can continue about the possible genetic evolution of the human body and the role of money in 3000AD and beyond, but I won't.

The only way population is decreased is with natural processes. It is not within the drive of Man to suppress his procreation. As a matter of fact, according to the genetic process, there is no such thing as real "overpopulation" -- only a depletion of living space.

Again, as far as water, it does not replicate by itself, and can run out, and if there is not a natural process to self-recover (like the ocean-vs-atmosphere on Earth), water can only be depleted by humans. If we could tap into all of the solar system's water as it is now, thousands of generations would NEVER hafta worry about running out. Except that the population keeps growing, and after a hundred Billion people need water not only for consumption but also for cleaning, it begins to make a dent. That is the premise for making it a valuable commodity for our mod (as opposed to ignoring its impact).

I do agree that how tangible money plays a role in the future is a good exercise in futuristic macroeconomic theory (think Max Headroom, where bad credit is worse than murder), but after all, this is a game that should be relate-able in the basic gameplay. Besides, the game does use virtual money...

Fission vs fusion! What, again? The debate has ended and yet the arguments keep coming in! Let me just say this, safety is not the end-all of how industries are born and become developed. And let me say with finality: fission will become so tested (in the storyline of our mod) and perfected, that it becomes THE power generation of choice for all societies, due to its stability, output, and fueling source. (Good, now that's been put to rest...)

And since evolution is not real (and would not be seen in the course of only a thousand years if it were), that shall not be addressed. That religion can be taken somewhere else. (And if you care to debate it, tell me which thread to go to -- let's not do that here.)

And yes, Mr X, this is NOT a complete overhaul in code (altho it can become that). Right now, i think we can get a good mod with changes in only graphics and pseudo-sprites. Changes in coding will have to happen if we want self-spawning colonies and disappearing starfreighters.

All ideas are welcome as long as they PERTAIN TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE MOD; i love discussing philosophy and differing opinions and beliefs, but not on this thread.

I've found other interests and now must move on...

I release this mod idea into the public realm for anyone who wants to develop it, introducing their own ideas to make it work. I trust that whoever takes over, if anyone, remember the original concept as i've enumerated in these posts -- simple, but challenging, and interesting, and most of all, fun. Good luck and i'll stop by to visit occasionally.

Be good to my baby

Does that mean that we can switch to fusion and have plenty of water?

Strange... people seem to forget that this mod is placed far in the future and OTOH say that they keep that in mind. Well, some simple things:

Power:
Wouldn't electricity be obsolete by that time? Wouldn't there be a completely different method to generate 'power'? What about dark energy, or super strings for a power source? Remember, ideas of how the universe works could change drastically in a thousand years. If you wish to stick to electricity a circular reactor of fusion and fision would be most likely, because that would create a near infinate cycle of energy generation; that cycle would end when the resource is nearly completely used.

Production:
Just watch star trek. Replicators would most likely be the most common source of production; but not the only one, since they cannot produce everything (certain complex or high density materials would be beyond them).

Transportation:
Would it still be a problem, requiring rails, roads, harbours and huge airports? I don't think so. It took us about 50 years to get from steam engines to maglevs. I wouldn't be amazed if we figured out how to use super strings in the next 20 years or so... possibly opening the use for antigravity, material generation from nothing (to clarify the replicator), faster then light travel, controlled wormholes, etc.

Brianetta wrote:Does that mean that we can switch to fusion and have plenty of water?

lol
I have to say Fusion is much more my cup of tea. Whatsmore there wont be any use for overcrowding. With Bionics etc. etc. chances are that reproduction would eventually be seen as unneccesary, and the desire removed from our genome. (...imagines life in 1000 years)