FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[CommanderZ]

Nooo, what about users who want truly hardcore experience

[NekoMaster]

I think you should just make a Normal and easy version of FIRS, it might be some work, but at least people like me that like things uncut and\or challenging can have fun while people that are new to industry grf\mods or aren't as skilled with openttd as others are can have a easier (and lighter version) of FIRS

[maquinista]

(and have much better graphics than ECS)

ECS has great graphics, like the tropical hotel, the coal mines or the factories. I like the two projects

[Kogut]

(and have much better graphics than ECS)

ECS has great graphics, like the tropical hotel, the coal mines or the factories. I like the two projects

But glass works are terrible. And I dislike all truck animations (disapperaring adn appearing from thin air).

[NekoMaster]

2 things I don't like about ECS

1) It takes A LOT longer and more power for it to place the industries when generating a new map or seeding a height map, and when you have a lot of ECS industries I notice that it takes a bit more power to run them
2) ECS Screws up NARS2 regearing, usually replacing it with "limestone", and not including the construction vector (i believe that's the one with limestone) still screws up regearing. So if your going to play with ECS, either us something that doesn't have regearing like NARS2 or get use to not being able to regear your nars2 trains

[andythenorth]

I think you should just make a Normal and easy version of FIRS

Neko - out of interest, do you use the Waste chain in your FIRS games?

[NekoMaster]

I think you should just make a Normal and easy version of FIRS

Neko - out of interest, do you use the Waste chain in your FIRS games?

Yes, so I can send it to a recycling center and get scrap metal, which I send to a steel mill

though in the recent nightly builds, both the general store and waste cp's produce like, over 4000 Tonnes of waste, that has to be a bug, unless its a very wasteful world Im playing

[andythenorth]

Yes, so I can send it to a recycling center and get scrap metal, which I send to a steel mill

If the recycling center produced scrap metal with no input, would you bother with waste?

Also, you know the junk yard produces scrap metal?

waste cp's produce like, over 4000 Tonnes of waste, that has to be a bug, unless its a very wasteful world Im playing

Yep, it's a bug. Not a mistake, just unfinished code.

[NekoMaster]

Well, i would prefer something that looks like a garbage dump\landfill, but for now a waste collection point is fine, maybe make the WCP larger instead? Also I think that you should make the incinerator change its looks as time goes on, since today, they have cleaner, more efficient incinerators, some even produce electricity (the one that the regions going to build near my city will be a waste to energy type)

It also would be unrealistic for a recycling center to produce with out input,though, if it where to produce a small amount from no input and lots with input then that might be fine

And yes I know the junk yard produces scrap metal

[andythenorth]

Well, i would prefer something that looks like a garbage dump\landfill...Also I think that you should make the incinerator change its looks as time goes on....some even produce electricity

All of those were planned

I'm not deleting the stuff for Waste, I've just put it on ice. I don't think it belongs in a default version of FIRS. It will be missing from nightlies until further notice (Recycling Plant and Junk Yard will stay).

BTW Neko, if you wanted to checkout and compile yourself, it could be just a few lines to re-enable Waste, but I can't help you with it too much!

[NekoMaster]

Well, i would prefer something that looks like a garbage dump\landfill...Also I think that you should make the incinerator change its looks as time goes on....some even produce electricity

All of those were planned

I'm not deleting the stuff for Waste, I've just put it on ice. I don't think it belongs in a default version of FIRS. It will be missing from nightlies until further notice (Recycling Plant and Junk Yard will stay).

BTW Neko, if you wanted to checkout and compile yourself, it could be just a few lines to re-enable Waste, but I can't help you with it too much!

Aw, I dont even know how to do that stuff. I dont even know how to compile code for anything, program or grf

[FooBar]

I think a medium-sized base set with multiple "plug-ins' is not a bad idea. That way one can start out small and gradually add a little bit more to every new game once the base industries get too easy or too boring. Given Andy's list of proposed changes, I think we should remove even more from the default to get at around 2 times the amount of industries compared to default TTD.

More industries are then added on a cargo basis. A parameter setting would allow to enable more cargo types and with each type comes a few extra industries.
So yes, I'm in favour of the parameter setting for the very reason that seperate grf add-ons are annoying to add to the grf list AND count towards the grf limit. We can then still allow third-party add-ons in the form of seperate grfs.

And then we have a normal version, a medium version, an advanced version, an intermediate version, a beginners version, a - well you get the point - version all in one. Splendid.

[NekoMaster]

I think a medium-sized base set with multiple "plug-ins' is not a bad idea. That way one can start out small and gradually add a little bit more to every new game once the base industries get too easy or too boring. Given Andy's list of proposed changes, I think we should remove even more from the default to get at around 2 times the amount of industries compared to default TTD.

More industries are then added on a cargo basis. A parameter setting would allow to enable more cargo types and with each type comes a few extra industries.
So yes, I'm in favour of the parameter setting for the very reason that seperate grf add-ons are annoying to add to the grf list AND count towards the grf limit. We can then still allow third-party add-ons in the form of seperate grfs.

And then we have a normal version, a medium version, an advanced version, an intermediate version, a beginners version, a - well you get the point - version all in one. Splendid.

I too, am in favor of using parameters to change stuff in FIRS, like difficulty, industry chains, maximum stockpile, etc

[andythenorth]

I think we should remove even more from the default to get at around 2 times the amount of industries compared to default TTD....More industries are then added on a cargo basis. A parameter setting would allow to enable more cargo types and with each type comes a few extra industries.

I agree in principle. I am a bit scared of complexity problems though:
- handling bug reports becomes 'which exact parameter combination was used?'
- the production code is already quite complex, and going to get more so. For example, some industries will produce a little more if supplied with multiple cargos. Handling that with some cargos enabled/disabled might be hideous. Or it might just work fine, but testing takes twice as long. Hmm.

Anyway, I think a few more industries could be turned off to get a 'basic' FIRS. So does planetmaker, but no-one knows which industries yet

FooBar, there are some other things we've been working on - if you can get near IRC, would be worth discussing...if not, nvm

cheers,

Andy

[byko]

some changes in language file.
EDIT:
still editing....

[Terkhen]

As a complete newbie using industries other than the standard, I also find the amount of industries at FIRS intimidating. I'm in favour of a "light" version.

Translations weren't enabled last time I checked (quite a while ago!). I came up with a new translation framework a while ago, but because that didn't work properly, it wasn't implemented at that time. Most likely one time I find a solution round that. At that point, structure of language files will change and current files need to be converted somehow...

When this solution is found, I'd like to translate FIRS to spanish

[FooBar]

When this solution is found, I'd like to translate FIRS to spanish

Thanks for the offer. I recommend waiting for the framework to be done, to save some work. Ofcourse the strings will not change, but the format in which they are saved most likely will.

@Andy:
It indeed can become a little complex. Maybe too complex indeed...
As for the industries, I believe you can set them to accept/produce something that isn't available. E.g. if FOOD is accepted but not an available cargo, the game just doesn't show FOOD as an option. As soon as FOOD is made available, it will put it on the list. That should reduce the complexity.

[andythenorth]

As for the industries, I believe you can set them to accept/produce something that isn't available. E.g. if FOOD is accepted but not an available cargo, the game just doesn't show FOOD as an option. As soon as FOOD is made available, it will put it on the list. That should reduce the complexity.

You may be right. I've tested quickly, and it appears to be the case. If so, that will help.

I'm also now proposing removing:
- cargo Milk
- cargo Bauxite
- cargo Aluminium
- cargo Scrap Metal
- cargo Sand
- cargo Gravel
- cargo Survey Supplies

- Dairy Farm
- Meat Packer
- Dairy
- Mixed Farm
- Brewery
- Animal Feed Plant (not coded yet)
- Aluminium Plant
- Recycling Plant
- Junk Yard
- Wind Farm
- Cement Plant
- Sand Pit
- Glass Works
- Dredging Site
- Engineering Materials Yard
- Survey Camp
- Survey Supply Depot
- Oil Platform

This will reduce basic FIRS by 7 cargos and 19 industries. That will leave about 19 cargos and about 20 industries. To see a list of what would be included: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/ ... s_proposal

Opinions?

(Neko and others: don't freak out, there may be a solution for you yet. I know you want a lot of industry and cargo. However there's no point in the FIRS team spending maybe two years creating FIRS if hardly anyone wants to play it because it's too big).

[Kogut]

Basic FIRS should be basic. But I'm also interested in another topic - what can be added to proFIRS. I thought about someting for years 1870-1920. (Aluminium plant in 1871 looks extremly funny)

[ChillCore]

OOh. I was so hoping for a game with so many complexity.
I understand your concern ... and will not freak out. Instead I will rename r416 to never_delete_r416 and hope for some parameters to appear at some time in the future.

Anyway, as this is my first post in this thread ...
I really like those sprites of yours. Very nice. I am Zealous of your skills.