Japan Set Development

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dandan
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan » 07 Jun 2009 14:29

planetmaker wrote: Besides that it's a lot of work, the sources are available here via svn: http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/total_bridges/
I'm sure that th_gergo wouldn't mind (we would need asking him, of course), if someone takes it and adds your rail and road types to it and we would be glad to grant write access to that repository then.

That said: good job with this whole Japan set you produce overall. It really looks awesome!
That's a misunderstanding. It *is* done already (with thgergo's permission, of course). Unfortunately, it's not on the website. It's hidden further up the thread somewhere. What is *not* done is making it work with all possible combinations of track types, as mentioned above. It works fine with Japanese Train Set with standard parameters and Japanese Landscape Set.

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by planetmaker » 07 Jun 2009 14:48

Oh, indeed, then it's a mis-understanding on my side. Thanks for pointing out :)

I guess, I'm still dreaming of a universal tbrs which can accomodate different mods, possibly depending upon a parameter which can be set (as, I guess, automatic detection of grfs may work, but what to do, if two are found which rules exist for etc). Integrating the Japan set grfs, or Smauk's winter grfs and some others are also out there, but everyone is a single bridge grf which accomodates other environments :S

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony » 07 Jun 2009 16:37

Wooosh! Excellent! All these releases at the same time! Very good job dandan!
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan » 07 Jun 2009 17:16

Another bug in the buildings was preventing the temples from appearing.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by krtaylor » 07 Jun 2009 21:56

Dandan, your status list is excellent. It seems to me that we should not worry about bridges ATM, that can be pushed off and dealt with later when it might be much easier - or not needed at all.

Regarding the trams, I don't think we should consider "trams" and "road vehicles" as the same set. I'd rather see a full set of Japanese trams first, and then if the motivation is there, eventually a complete road vehicle set. A tram set is I think more important than a full road vehicle set, as well as being much smaller and thus easier to accomplish.

For industries, there are really two different ways to approach it - draw new structures for the default industries that look more "Japanese" but function the same as they always have, or create a complete new industry vector matrix. Either approach requires a whole lot of artwork, but the first is easier and can be done piecemeal, as well as maybe being partially recyclable into the second at a later time. So that might be best.

One other point for the trains that's IMO very important - animation of the steamers. Other than that I think it's pretty much mostly done. I'm not really sure it's possible to heavily distinguish the Arctic from the Temperate, aren't the trains in Hokkaido (Arctic) mostly the same as elsewhere?
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Toni Babelony » 07 Jun 2009 22:48

JR trains in Japan can be divided into two groups: AC and DC region groups. There is also a smaller AC/DC group which can be included in both the Arctic and Temperate classes.

In general:
AC = Hokkaidô, Tohoku (North Honshû), Kyûshû;
DC = Honshû, Shikoku;

There are already some trains in the set that are AC-region only specified and many DC-region only specified. The AC/DC dual system trains can be used in both sets.

I'll make up a list with the trains that can be used in AC (Arctic), DC (Temperate) and both regions later on.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by DanMacK » 07 Jun 2009 22:55

I'll see what I can do about animating the steam locos int he coming weeks, can't guarantee anything before July though.

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by stevenh » 08 Jun 2009 01:43

Sorry guys.. I reset the server with the new GRFs...

dandan, do we have blue slopes too? ;)
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan » 08 Jun 2009 06:30

stevenh wrote:dandan, do we have blue slopes too? ;)
No, even though all sprites are replaced. I guess the point is that sloped terrain can't be flooded. Of course that means you can't grow rice on slopes either unless by creating terraces. So the best solution IMO would be if someone could draw some terraces.

(Perhaps I was a bit too quick to put those rice fields in. They are not bad, but I find the blue a little extreme. It looks so... alien?)

EDIT: @krtaylor: I agree that trams should be completed first. But if other road vehicles ever get drawn, I would suggest we add them to the same grf. Our zoo of grfs is already confusing enough, I think.
About those bridges: The bridge grf we have may not be perfect, but it's not that bad either. Maybe you could post it on the website? (We do have thgergo's permission).

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by NekoMaster » 08 Jun 2009 21:09

I was wondering, does japan have buses in the cities and for long distance (other then for sports and schools )
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by Rubidium » 08 Jun 2009 21:17

NekoMaster wrote:I was wondering, does japan have buses in the cities and for long distance (other then for sports and schools )
Yes it has inner city busses [1] and yes it has long distance busses, assuming 1000 km/14.5 hours counts as long distance [2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Bus (lots of bus lines within Tokyo)
[2] http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2366_tokyo.html#fukuoka (Tokyo-Fukuoka)

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by NekoMaster » 08 Jun 2009 21:33

I looked around for the sets parameters but I cant find anything, i looked in the read me, I looked in the grf (with notepad :p ) and on the website. I found nothing. So does any one know the parameters, cause I saw them before and stuff.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by stevenh » 08 Jun 2009 23:27

NekoMaster wrote:I looked around for the sets parameters but I cant find anything, i looked in the read me, I looked in the grf (with notepad :p ) and on the website. I found nothing. So does any one know the parameters, cause I saw them before and stuff.
http://www.as-st.com/ttd/japan/index.html

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by krtaylor » 09 Jun 2009 01:09

dandan wrote:So the best solution IMO would be if someone could draw some terraces.
(Perhaps I was a bit too quick to put those rice fields in. They are not bad, but I find the blue a little extreme. It looks so... alien?)
I always thought that the rice fields as drawn were supposed to BE terraces. I agree, they could be improved, both to be a little less brightly blue and also more terrace-looking. However, I will say that I've seen aerial photos of terraces in Japan and China and you do seem to get a really really bright reflection off of the water in them that looks not unlike that bright blue.
dandan wrote: About those bridges: The bridge grf we have may not be perfect, but it's not that bad either. Maybe you could post it on the website? (We do have thgergo's permission).
Are you saying that there is a Japanese bridges GRF that I don't have? If so, please post it.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by ever » 09 Jun 2009 02:23

Here you go.

Its just tbrs but with the Japanese tracks and roads. It doesn't adjust to the messing around of trainset parameters though. So you can only have narrow gauge replacing standard and Shinkansen Replaing Maglev.

But I don't mess around with those anyway so all is good.

Btw +1 vote for the blue to stay blue

The main thing I like about this set is that its so cute and colorful and japanese and that blue is cute and colorful.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by NekoMaster » 09 Jun 2009 02:42

stevenh wrote:
NekoMaster wrote:I looked around for the sets parameters but I cant find anything, i looked in the read me, I looked in the grf (with notepad :p ) and on the website. I found nothing. So does any one know the parameters, cause I saw them before and stuff.
http://www.as-st.com/ttd/japan/index.html
I already said I was there, i found nothing...

BTW I vote for the rice fields to stay Blue. Why do more work when it looks good enough?

As far as I know, thats 2 votes for blue to stay unless there are other posts I haven't seen.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by ever » 09 Jun 2009 03:23

Look harder next time, they're not *that* hard to find.

Here I'll post them.

GRF parameters

GRF parameters can be used to customize various aspects of the Japanese Train Set. (Information on how to use GRF parameters: in TTDPatch; in OpenTTD).
The following parameters are avaible (default values in bold print):
1st Parameter:

* 0 - Use narrow gauge track graphics for normal rail and Shinkansen track graphics for Shinkansen tracks
* 1 - Do not use narrow gauge track graphics, but use Shinkansen track graphics for Shinkansen tracks
* 2 - Use narrow gauge track graphics for normal rail and normal default track graphics for Shinkansen tracks
* 3 - Do not change track graphics at all

Important note: This setting affects the graphics only. So for example the value 2 does not mean that Shinkansen trains can run on normal tracks.

The Shinkansen will replace maglev in OpenTTD and either maglev or monorail in TTDPatch depending on the setting of the unified maglev switch.
Narrow gauge and Shinkansen track graphics are included for both the Japanese landscape and for the default TTD graphics (including proper road crossings).
2nd Parameter:

* 0 - Use separate sprites for mail cars in multiple units whenever available.
* 1 - Use passenger car sprites in multiple units for both passenger and mail cars.

Note that mail car sprites are currently unavailable for some multiple unit trains. However, this does not affect the possibility to attach mail cars to all trains.
3rd Parameter:
Cost setting:

* 0 - very low
* 1 - low
* 2 - normal
* 3 - high
* 4 - insane

Add 8 to these values to switch running costs for wagons off in OpenTTD (automatic in TTDPatch).
4th Parameter:
Load/unload speed

* 1 slow
* 2 normal
* 3 fast

The slow setting corresponds roughly to the TTD default values.

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by dandan » 09 Jun 2009 06:11

NekoMaster wrote:I looked around for the sets parameters but I cant find anything, i looked in the read me
If you say so, but I find it hard to believe. They are in the readme, and the readme is both on the website and comes with the grf. And if you open the readme, the very first item you see is a small table of contents where it says "GRF parameters". This is not a mock question, I am really curious: What more can we do?
krtaylor wrote: I always thought that the rice fields as drawn were supposed to BE terraces.
Now that you mention it, I can see the terraces. But then they should also have water on them when the tiles around them are in the "water period".
krtaylor wrote: Are you saying that there is a Japanese bridges GRF that I don't have? If so, please post it.
It's on page 167 of this very thread, second post.

There is no readme currently, but parameters are the same as for thgergo's original set.
NekoMaster wrote: BTW I vote for the rice fields to stay Blue. Why do more work when it looks good enough?
As far as I know, thats 2 votes for blue to stay unless there are other posts I haven't seen.
Who called for a vote on this? :wink: Anyway, I never said I don't want them blue, they are water tiles after all. I just think the blue is too bright. And something should be done about the slopes.

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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by NekoMaster » 09 Jun 2009 08:45

dandan wrote:
NekoMaster wrote:I looked around for the sets parameters but I cant find anything, i looked in the read me
If you say so, but I find it hard to believe. They are in the readme, and the readme is both on the website and comes with the grf. And if you open the readme, the very first item you see is a small table of contents where it says "GRF parameters". This is not a mock question, I am really curious: What more can we do?

I did look in the read me, I found nothing, I looked in the oldest release I had (v5) and the newest, neither had info on the parameters. I also did not find it on the site, i never found anything that pointed toward it.

dandan wrote: something should be done about the slopes.
I agree, cant have half the tile being rice then the other being wheat fields.


BTW, I found that the TORA 55000 hopper is missing its sprite, now, this might be because I have other sets active, so ill try again later with out anything else but the japan set, if it still doesnt work Ill post a screen shot.
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Re: Japan Set Development

Post by krtaylor » 10 Jun 2009 00:22

dandan wrote: Now that you mention it, I can see the terraces. But then they should also have water on them when the tiles around them are in the "water period".
Oho. Is it perhaps a coding error? I mean, are there drawn slope-terraces that show water in them, that either aren't coded yet or weren't coded to appear in the correct phase?

If not, it should be fairly easy to put water in the slope-terraces, then everything would look correct. I do think something along those lines should be done.

I am neutral on the question of the bright water; it doesn't really offend me. I think if we fix the slope-terraces so it all matches, then it will all look good without changing the water.

Regarding the bridges, if it's really just the TBRS, do we have permission to post it separately under our own name and schema? We'd need a new Readme for it in any case.
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