ECS vectors v1.1.2 (by George) 19/06/2011

[LittleHelper]

Chico,

-distance mine-power plant: 40
-train lengths: 6+7 wagons
-for both "full load"
I will test to use another coal mine with a longer distance. The only problem is the shortage of money to finance a longer route.
Greetz


Edit:
@George
George, I started to play with your vectors again and after having a hard time at the beginning I have now a running network. But there is one issue I don't really understand (I checked the wiki and I read the last 6-7 pages here, but I found no answer):
I have 2 coal mines and 2 sand pits. All of them are producing the same amount of coal/sand as it was in the first year. I played 15 years now and there is always at least one train loading at the stations, but there are NO production increases at all.

Greetz

[athanasios]

George's ECS are hard to play with. And to make a small conspiracy theory: I think George wants us to use his LVs instead of trains. Sorry George, this is a joke, no harm intended.

[Chico008]

LVs ??? whats's this ?

[Purno]

LongVehicles, a GRF made by George. Check GRFCrawler or Linkage (link in sig)

[Toch]

Little helper

to rapidly increase coal or any mine production, provide it with vehicles and keep good service, then should be production much more better.

[LittleHelper]

Thanks to all for the help,
but all these ideas are not helping.


At first, I would like to thank everybody who gave a helping hand to develop these vector basics, esp. George, Michael and Zimmlock, but not to forget all other helpful guys. I appreciate the hard work esp. George and others have put into these vectors. I really do enjoy the new graphics and I enjoy playing with new raw materials and new factories. Nevertheless I do have some critiques regarding these vectors... but they are meant in a positive way to improve them... and to achieve nice, enjoyable games with them.


1.Experiences
I try to summarize my conclusion after playing 35 years with the ECS-vectors Town, Basic, Agriculture and Chemical:
- The requirements to get production increases are too high (at least for some materials like coal, sand). I haven't played all vectors. Therefore my comments are limited regarding the above mentioned vectors.
- the production starts at 0... you have to wait quite a long time till your first train/ship has a full load.
- the requirement of the high station rating ...at least for coal and sand... is too high
- sometimes you can have big increase jumps which leads to a big oversupply (i had with a fruit plantation). If you don't have enough trains or you don't want to add more trains, then your production falls back to 0, because you can't transport it so fast as it occurred.
- the production chains are too long and there are too many dependencies. For example, I need glass for the factory. Because I can't produce more coal (s. my separate notes above), there is not enough glass to produce goods at the factory. This leads to the problem, that at one stage there are too many dyes, the dyes train can't deliver more dyes (because there is no further storage) and can't pick it up at the chemical plant, therefore the production of dyes is falling back... this leads to the consequence that the refined products can't be delivered any more to the chemical plant ... which cuts at the end the production of exploring oil with the oil rigs. These chains are way too long and if there is only one supply somewhere, the results will/can have a disruption in the overall production ... and of course, in your income stream.


2.Proposals
- there should be a minimum rate for stations if at least one train is serving that station.
- lower the high station rating requirement ...at least for coal and sand
- the in-/decreases should be smoother that you don't have so large up/down jumps in the production
- the logic of the production in-/decreases should be shortened ... (i have played PikkaBirds's industry grfs several times... and had never problems in succeeding a nice profitable game).


I do hope a discussion will start/continue how these ECS-conditions can be defined... and I would like to ask others who have played these vectors, to bring up your comments and ideas, too, so that George is getting some help to create "perfect" vectors for us!


Greetz

[Patgreg]

You could try building "storage" stations.

transport item from station at industry to "industry storage station" (away from industry radius)
transport item from "industry storage station" to "delivery storage station" (away from delivery point radius)
transport item from "delivery storage station" to delivery point (ie next industry in chain)

use full load between storage stations, and transport between industry to storage/storage to idelivery point as NOT full load
this evens out "feast or famine" fluctuations.

[Oz]

Hey, George! I hope this message finds you well!

I'm going on vacation tomorrow for a few weeks, but I wanted to finally (3 years in the making !) give you the finished steel mill sprites before I left.

Changes include:
- Buildings removed from groundtiles
- Snowed buildings
- All three construction stages
- Revamped smoke (IMHO the last iteration of the smoke was too dark. So, I lightened it, and gave it a beige/pink sulfur color)
- General small graphical changes

I think that this should wrap up the steel mill. If you want, I can break the sprites into individual 32x32 tiles, but that will have to wait until I return. A mock-up is posted below.

Cheers and happy coding!

[George]

Hey, George! I hope this message finds you well!

Good news

I'm going on vacation tomorrow for a few weeks,

Wish you a good rest!

but I wanted to finally (3 years in the making !) give you the finished steel mill sprites before I left.

Cool!

I think that this should wrap up the steel mill. If you want, I can break the sprites into individual 32x32 tiles,

Not necessary, I'd prefer to do this task myself. Could you split ground tile and a building for construction stages too?

Thank you very much for a really cool stuff.
One small question. Shouldn't furnaces be less snowed? They should provide much hot, don't they?

P.S. Next time please put vehicles separately from the ground tile. I prefer to code them as separate sprite, because it allows animation.

[Smaug]

Changes include:
- Buildings removed from groundtiles
- Snowed buildings
- All three construction stages
- Revamped smoke (IMHO the last iteration of the smoke was too dark. So, I lightened it, and gave it a beige/pink sulfur color)
- General small graphical changes

I think that this should wrap up the steel mill.

Wrap up??? The looks of that steelmill(station) just gave me a heart attack. Beautiful!

[Purno]

Agreed, awesome artwork. My compliments!

[Hyronymus]

It's stunning, truly. Can't wait to abuse that set of sprites .

[Oz]

Wish you a good rest!

Well, I wish I could say it's going to be all fun and games, but I'll be working on a manuscript for a scientific publication part of the time. I have to stress PART of the time, though!

Could you split ground tile and a building for construction stages too?

If you're concerned about transparency, shouldn't the regular ground tiles work?

Thank you very much for a really cool stuff.

Any time, George. Thank YOU for working so hard on the ECS vectors! IMHO they add whole new dimensions to (O)TTD(P).

One small question. Shouldn't furnaces be less snowed? They should provide much hot, don't they?

If you look, the snow is melted around areas that I thought would be warmer, such as around smoke stacks, the blast furnace, and the vents on the clearstories of the mills. Subtle, I know, but at the same time I want the mills to fit in with the rest of the alpine/arctic buildings.

P.S. Next time please put vehicles separately from the ground tile. I prefer to code them as separate sprite, because it allows animation.

Consider it done.

Smaug, Purno, Hyr: Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen! Just wait until George works his coding voodoo on this bad boy.

Next up: the farm redux.

Cheers!

[Wile E. Coyote]

Many times I'm surprised what is possible to make with 256 colours only...

[Castaras]

I think I got the evil version of your grf.



=P

Loving ECS, by the way. ^.^ Just a question...when are/have train wagons been implemented for the new cargos?

[Youri219]

I think I got the evil version of your grf.

=P

Loving ECS, by the way. ^.^ Just a question...when are/have train wagons been implemented for the new cargos?

Most newgrf train sets support new cargo, but the original sets don't.

If you do prefer the original locomotives I recommend Pikkabirds' old wagons new cargos grf which makes the default wagons refittable.
I think you have to load the train/wagon sets AFTER any industry set, though I'm not sure about that.

[Castaras]

Thanks muchly for the info. I'll go look into it. =)

[dbkblk]

Hi,

Is there any ships GRF that work with ECS ?

[Greizer]

George,

On your Downloads page, it says "an error occurred while processing this directive".
This is like a bad dream; I want to play with your new industries! Kind regards & please help,

Greizer

Edit (Oh, I love unlimited edits! Finally a forum that has them.): Bless you, George! Your downloads work again. Now to build some railroads... If an anomaly happens, I'll be sure to comment.

[George]

I'm looking for beta-testers for ECS vectors beta 5.