Trains getting old - dirt overlays

Hazen · Post by **Hazen** » 01 May 2006 12:22

Feel free to shoot this down, but...

I was playing around with textures and such, and started to think that it would be nice that, in addition to company color overlays, it would be nice to have dirt overlays.

The way that I see this working is, that at first you have a new train (or train just out of servicing) in which the paint shines and windows glare. Then after some time (perhaps a week or a couple) it would get dirt first dirt overlay that would make it seem 'not-so-new'. Finally after, some amount of time (half a year, year) it would get second dirt overlay that would make it seem really old and dirty. And then, like I said, if the train would enter a depot for servicing it would remove the overlays.

I don't know how hard this would be to add and how this would work technically. Maybe just a couple of "general dirt overlays" would be sufficient and the dirt to individual trains would be calculated based on the company colors overlay (where there is some company color, there would be added random part of dirt overlay).

Anyways it's just an idea..

Czestmyr · Post by **Czestmyr** » 01 May 2006 12:29

The different versions of the same train look nice. But I guess you will just have to ask programmers about adding this functionality.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 01 May 2006 13:37

Czestmyr wrote:The different versions of the same train look nice. But I guess you will just have to ask programmers about adding this functionality.

Since the game counters the age of all vehicles it should not be such a big problem to switch the "picture" to draw, if a vehicle is above a certain age.

Psistorm · Post by **Psistorm** » 01 May 2006 14:19

that sounds like a great idea to me

some visual feedback on the age of the trains sounds cool, realistic and not too hard to implement, since you already keep track of the age of each train.

maybe make this optional, if there is anyone out there who doesnt want his historic pretty steam trains to get all ugly

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 01 May 2006 14:40

Hmm... it sure looks very nice. Dunno if it's worth the effort tho.

ZxBiohazardZx · Post by **ZxBiohazardZx** » 01 May 2006 15:03

nice eyecandy, so its worth it:-P....

Czestmyr · Post by **Czestmyr** » 01 May 2006 15:50

Dunno if it's worth the effort tho.

That's what I meant. And also if you implement all sorts of eye-candy like day & nigth, seasons, multiple zoom levels, dirt overlays, more angles of view, etc... The game will end up as a hdd and even RAM giant, not mentioning the number of sprites that will have to be rendered.

As I said, I like the thought and the renders look nice, but I don't know if it should really be in the final game.

Archonix · Post by **Archonix** » 01 May 2006 16:41

All games allow eye-candy effects to be turned on or off depending on the user's preference. Besides, having a visual effect of how old a train is getting is useful from a UI standpoint. Another option would be to alter how thick and oily a diesel's exhaust is, or how sparky an engine's smoke is. Stuff like that.

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 01 May 2006 16:57

Having Dirt Imerge on trains has been discussed after almost every new train is modelled. Check back in the blender thread.

Personally i think it would be good, but theres many things that would be good that all take more time to make. I think a train looking old and dirty would definatly be useful for trains past/approching the end of there designed life (15-25 years).

Hazen · Post by **Hazen** » 01 May 2006 17:14

I'll try to clarify my idea a bit. If the dirt is just an overlay nobody has to redo the models with dirty texturing (and of course if dirt on trains would require new sprite for every angle of the train the amount of sprites would rise to too high).

Instead I'm suggesting that we have a one image of "dirt" which we apply to all trains. This way it wouldn't require any new models or sprites, just the one dirt image.

I'll now go and find the relevant discussion in the blender thread and leave you with another mockup.

Redirect Left · Post by **Redirect Left** » 01 May 2006 17:24

How about adding a bit of rust
after all im sure train will rust a bit

Ichi · Post by **Ichi** » 01 May 2006 17:28

Hazen wrote:I'll try to clarify my idea a bit. If the dirt is just an overlay nobody has to redo the models with dirty texturing (and of course if dirt on trains would require new sprite for every angle of the train the amount of sprites would rise to too high).

Instead I'm suggesting that we have a one image of "dirt" which we apply to all trains. This way it wouldn't require any new models or sprites, just the one dirt image.

I'll now go and find the relevant discussion in the blender thread and leave you with another mockup.

I see your point and I know this is just to show, but I think the overlay needs some more brown and black, it has too much white.

Ben_Robbins_ · Post by **Ben_Robbins_** » 01 May 2006 17:31

I think just overlaying a cloud, makes the train look like it is a lost spirit fading into the abis. Although the paint would loose colour, Dirt would appear in more specific places, and in lines reletive to the direction of travel.

Hazen · Post by **Hazen** » 01 May 2006 17:44

Ichi wrote:I see your point and I know this is just to show, but I think the overlay needs some more brown and black, it has too much white.

Ben_Robbins_ wrote:I think just overlaying a cloud, makes the train look like it is a lost spirit fading into the abis. Although the paint would loose colour, Dirt would appear in more specific places, and in lines reletive to the direction of travel.

Yeah, it's a pure excuse of a mockup, I'm not much of an gimp user. Maybe some day I'll get an inspiration and I'll try to do a decent dirt-overlay, or perhaps someone else wants to give it a go (where the latter option would be preferable

)

Ichi · Post by **Ichi** » 01 May 2006 17:45

Hazen wrote:
Ichi wrote:I see your point and I know this is just to show, but I think the overlay needs some more brown and black, it has too much white.

Ben_Robbins_ wrote:I think just overlaying a cloud, makes the train look like it is a lost spirit fading into the abis. Although the paint would loose colour, Dirt would appear in more specific places, and in lines reletive to the direction of travel.
Yeah, it's a pure excuse of a mockup, I'm not much of an gimp user. Maybe some day I'll get an inspiration and I'll try to do a decent dirt-overlay, or perhaps someone else wants to give it a go (where the latter option would be preferable )

I could do some photoshopping and try something out, some day.

Czestmyr · Post by **Czestmyr** » 01 May 2006 18:12

Hazen wrote:I'll try to clarify my idea a bit. If the dirt is just an overlay nobody has to redo the models with dirty texturing (and of course if dirt on trains would require new sprite for every angle of the train the amount of sprites would rise to too high).

Instead I'm suggesting that we have a one image of "dirt" which we apply to all trains. This way it wouldn't require any new models or sprites, just the one dirt image.

I'll now go and find the relevant discussion in the blender thread and leave you with another mockup.

Oh, Now I see what you meant. It looks interesting, but the overlay should be combined with the vehicle differently. eg. using a darken only method, so that the black parts of the vehicle stay black.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 01 May 2006 18:35

Czestmyr wrote:
That's what I meant. And also if you implement all sorts of eye-candy like day & nigth, seasons, multiple zoom levels, dirt overlays, more angles of view, etc... The game will end up as a hdd and even RAM giant, not mentioning the number of sprites that will have to be rendered.

As I said, I like the thought and the renders look nice, but I don't know if it should really be in the final game.

i think the picture in the RAM or loading it from HDD will take less CPU power then rendering it while playing. And if the "dirt effect" is only an layer over every existing picture so it can be made with every picture (maybe automated).
Further the game only has unter 10 MB with all standart grapics. Take a new game and take a look at their size. They come with 2-4 CDs or on DVD which is ~1 GB-4 GB data they bring with. If you analyze what is graphic and what is programm code you will find out that 99% is graphic or map design data. The programm itself only has under 10 MB. So if you compare with new games you will see that there is enough space. And if the detail level increases the effect level should inscrease too. The graphics from 10 years ago are pretty but outdated.

Czestmyr · Post by **Czestmyr** » 01 May 2006 18:56

gigajum wrote:[...] They come with 2-4 CDs or on DVD which is ~1 GB-4 GB data they bring with. [...] So if you compare with new games you will see that there is enough space. [...]

Wow

Open TTD on a DVD

Julz · Post by **Julz** » 01 May 2006 21:29

visual cues for engine age (new / well used / time to replace) would be wonderful. I do hope this is implemented.

Julz · Post by **Julz** » 01 May 2006 21:30

visual cues for engine age (new / well used / time to replace) would be wonderful. I do hope this is implemented.

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Trains getting old - dirt overlays

Trains getting old - dirt overlays

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