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MrDetermination
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My classroom, and you're the teacher. Hands on style. Long

Post by MrDetermination »

I've only been at this about a week, so be gentle.

Signals aren't really clicking for me. I've read the TTDX forums a few times and sometimes even though I realize something works, I don't really understand how it works.

Lesson 1:
Image
From here

To me, with the one ways on the outside (away from the depot) it seems like those signals would stop any train from ever taking the outside. Is it not the case that trains should never come down a track where a one way signal has it's back to their oncoming direction?

Lesson 2:
Image

How do you handle a situation like this? There are resources to the south and destinations to the north. The resources are in a line to the south but a bit separated to the north.

This was one of the first things I did wrong, and was only a couple nights ago. And I realize the section for the southbound north train was clear to come on through and butt heads with the northbound train from the south. What I needed was a passing area to the south and to kill that southernmost two way, right?

The reason I included this in my list of problems today is that I'm wondering how you would have handled it. I think if I were doing that again i'd build the passing area at the north of the tunnel. Or is there a better way?

Lesson 3:
Now we get to the good stuff!
Image
Okay, there is a sawmill and a coal mine to the NE. the power plant is north of the woods. Each of the trains had only two orders (load/unload). Yet, the coal train was going down to the woods and the woods train was going to the power plant... Cats and Dogs, living together... it was ANARCHY!

Lesson 4:
I saved the best for last. Multi part, and we get in to the save games!
4a:
Image
Actually...

4a(1):
Simlple.
Did I need two stations here? since the coverage area of the one station encompassed both mines, did this do me any good?

4a(2):
Medium.
If these were two different sources (coal + wood) then would I need two different stations or "should" one station cover both? I ask this because it seems like every time I try that it only lets me pick up one of the resources.

4a(3):
Difficult.
Does it ever make sense to have two different types of cars on the same train? Like maybe... have four stops? 2 pickup and 2 drop off? Or does it always make more sense to have dedicated trains?

4a(4):
Here is the save, and I might be getting ahead of myself, may want to read "b" before answering this.

It seemed to me that I had more than enough resources in this setup to take coal south and north from the south station. So I ran a new line down south and had trains coming to the southern station from both the north and south. But my trains that were supposed to go to the power plant down south were running up to the north end of the map and sometimes even unloading there against their orders!

4a(4a): This is related to #3, above. How do you forbid the southbound trains from going further stouth than that station and vice versa for the northbound trains from the south?


4a(4b): Why were they unloading where they shouldn't be?

4b, extended OR How I learned to stop worrying and love Transport Tycoon:
Would you do me a favor and download and signal this? Name that file "Signaled" or something like that (maybe include your name). Then erase what I did badly, rebuild it yourself and name that "TheRightWay" or "[yourName] way"?

This not being able to view demos in OpenTTD thing is holding me back. Some hands on/studyable critique/reworking would do me wonders!

If you want to email me the files, mrdetermination AT gmail DAWT com would be best :)

For reference, and commentary if you are so inclined, here is how I signaled that and here are things a while later.

Thanks for reading this far!
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Brianetta
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Post by Brianetta »

OK, here's my attempt. I didn't make the whole line two-way, but made parts of it so.

The two stations by the coal mines were merged into one bigger one.

The stations were made into roll-on, roll-off one-way stations. Note that, if there's a choice of ways a train can go, it'll wait for the "right way" if the signals are one-way. If it encounters a pair of two-way signals, and the path it wants is red, it'll go the other way - which is why the platform entrances have two-way signals.

I haven't used pre-signals at all. Thats slightly more advanced. This network should handle three trains loading coal to the power station, easily.
Attachments
Signalled by Brianetta.sav
Saved game, all signalled up.
(88.93 KiB) Downloaded 112 times
PGP fingerprint: E66A 9D58 AA10 E967 41A6 474E E41D 10AE 082C F3ED
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Post by bobingabout »

1. thats the point, it forces trains to always go into the depot, however, this is not needed in OTTD since you can order trains into a depot.

2. you need either 2 lanes, so 1 can go north, while the other goes south, or you need a passing point, simular to this
Image

3. you need a more complex junction, to allow trains to enter from the south, while another heads south, like this. this is what i would do.
Image
or even like this if its just a few trains, this is what i used to do.
Image

4a. no, you only needed the 1 station.
4a(3). you can have more than 1 type of carrage per train, however, that limits its capacity, its better to have 1 train per cargo type.
4a(4a). make yourself a turn around point, simular to the 1s in this picture.
http://www.tt-forums.net//files/tash_tr ... 09_106.png
you might also want to add bypass lanes to your stations
Image

note: most of these pictures were designed for the original TTD, with the new acceleration system and speed limits, thos "90 degree" corners kill your speed.
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Post by MrDetermination »

Brianetta,

Thanks. Do you always force trains to the left on purpose? I have my preferences set up so vehicles drive to the right (default). Are you configured the same way? If so, is it important that they always go the same way, or is it just habit/good practice?

bobingabout,

1. Then what is the point in having the outside piece of track?

3. Augh! I am not ready :) I will revisit those this weekend.

4a1. Could you highlight the turnaround areas?

4a2. To clarify, the lane to the northwest in your screenshot is the bypass lane? And trains coming in from the northeast would never go to this station?
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Post by MrDetermination »

We'll call this "5" Why don't they unload?

This was an exercise in one way station basics (trying to implement what I think I've learned here so far). I signaled and resignaled, pulled up track, etc until I got it where it is in the screenie. "Why doesn't that work?", "How can I make them more efficient?" Etc.

When I got it where I thought it was best, for what it is, they stopped unloading. Why?

I attached a screenie and the save game.
Attachments
Denborough Bay Transport, 10th Apr 1955.png
Screenie
(276.23 KiB) Downloaded 160 times
oneway stations(no unload).sav
Save
(101.96 KiB) Downloaded 100 times
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Post by Death »

You should let the trains to stop at the unload station without the "unload" order. :wink:
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Post by MrDetermination »

Why?

Always?
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Post by Sacro »

If you set a train to Unload, then it basically leaves its cargo on the platforms, to be picked up by another vehicle, rather than dropping them at the local business.
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Post by Brianetta »

MrDetermination wrote:Brianetta,

Thanks. Do you always force trains to the left on purpose? I have my preferences set up so vehicles drive to the right (default). Are you configured the same way? If so, is it important that they always go the same way, or is it just habit/good practice?
I almost always make trains run on the left. They run on the left in the UK; it feels right. That said, sometimes my branch lines run on the right, because the junctions can sometimes be simpler when the trains switch sides. Which side you choose is up to you, and there's no reason it needs to match the road vehicles, which is what the preferences option changes (aside from a cosmetic signal change).

Most people feel that it's important that trains always run on the same side. What's important is consistency - on a large network it's easy to lose track. My counter-running banches are always less that one screenful long, for this reason.
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Post by bobingabout »

1. the bypass is to fool the fath finding into thinking the track is complete. i don't think it works with the new path finding systems on.

4a1. 1 is a simple turn around, 2 is a more complex depot junction where trains can enter the depot then leave in either direction, or simply turn around.
4a2. blue ones are bypass, pinkish ones are normal station lanes.
Attachments
Twowaystationwithbypass.gif
Twowaystationwithbypass.gif (110.57 KiB) Viewed 3916 times
tash_transport__24th_dec_2009_106.png
tash_transport__24th_dec_2009_106.png (140.13 KiB) Viewed 977 times
JPG SUX!!! USE PNG!!!
There are times when JPG is useful, TTD screenshots is not one of them. Please use PNG instead.

[/url]
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Post by mega rail »

pls would you tell me what version of ottd you are useing.
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Post by MrDetermination »

mega,

version r3080

Okay, I'm experimenting with bypass lanes. Why are my trains going through the power plant without dropping off, looping around, then dropping off?

Image

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Post by Death »

You should put your depot before the station enterance,
Because the trains which need service go to the depot and then they unload the cargo.
If you put the depot at the exit, the trains will go to the depot and then they will make a loop and then they will unload the cargo.

(Edited:) I think that the best you can do is this:
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Post by Death »

By the way, use Pre-Signals and PBS to advance your railways.
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Post by mega rail »

I have looked at your games and a few points i want to make.
1)You have got to many 2 way signals. Most of them are in places that cause gridlocks.
2)try to avoid the sharp 90 Degree turns. They slow trains down to 55MPH.
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Post by TimoJasper »

I noticed the trains slowing on a corner, but i dont fully understand the 90 degree turn you all mentioned. How is it determined, by square?
As an example i made a picture. I noticed it slowing at numer 3, but i dont fully understand so i made number 2 and 3.
When the train take the corner at number 2, does it slow down there?
I dint think so cause it isnt a 90 degree turn.
Does it slow down at number 3 then? cause if you compare the entrance to number 3 then it is a 90 degree turn...
I am sorry if this question is a bit dum, but i got confused and i really want to be a master TT player one day.
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Post by gkirilov »

Sacro wrote:If you set a train to Unload, then it basically leaves its cargo on the platforms, to be picked up by another vehicle, rather than dropping them at the local business.
This is the "transfer" command you are describing.

- 90 is number1. It slows a LOT. I never use them. You can forbid trains to make 90 degee turns (from configure patches).
- if the trains is long enough (doesN't fit between 2-----3) then it will slow down i.e. when it is in both turns at the same time. I am not sure what happens when the train is short and takes one turn after the other.
- I think we call 2 and 3 - 45 degree turns.
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Post by TimoJasper »

and 45 degree turns arent slowing trains down?
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Post by chairface »

45 degree turns don't slow trains down unless the whole length of the train involves 2 or more such turns. As long as there's only 1 45 degree "bend" in a train, it stays at full speed.
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Post by MrDetermination »

Is that true in real life? The 45 degree turn thing?

Also, I've made a lot of progress. I'm learning much faster now. My biggest problem right now are the PBS signal entry/exits. I end up "cheating" and just laying down 10 blocks of track and surrounding it with PBS signals and letting the ai direct traffic in to my stations. Getting better though. I've got waiting areas down and I'm starting to see the importance of a good junction :)
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