Smooth Cornering

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 09 Sep 2005 20:48

Since patchman invented the tilting trains in TTD (although they haven't been publicly released yet) I've been thinking about smoother corners in TTD.
Basically, instead of just switching direction immediately, it will change to a half way position as it goes around the corner. Patchman thinks it will look odd, but I think it will be an improvement still. The problem is, I can't draw!

So I seek a good artist to make some test graphics to see what it is like. You can probaly use the voyager code if james is happy about it. Perhaps even modify those tilting graphics into turning graphics.

I prepared a little diagram to show the direction of the train at the revelvant points, to test the concept, you might as well just do this one intermediate graphic (which is still beyond my talents).

I hope someone can help!

Edit: The intermediate graphic is at 22.5 degrees. You could probaly use the same graphic with different offsets to make it fit better on the track, or double the work with a graphic at 15 degrees and a graphic at 30 degrees.

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 10 Sep 2005 04:21

Heh, I did try that recently, only with a slightly different style

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 10 Sep 2005 09:19

I think it'll look strange, and besides, it doubles the work for graphics artists.

broodje · Post by **broodje** » 10 Sep 2005 10:38

yes, but long train cars would look a lot better with it. the USset and their huge steam engines would look a lot better

.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 10 Sep 2005 10:58

Indeed, for long carriages it´ll be useful but not for short ones given their offsets are properly done (e.g. something like the ET-87 looks very good on curved track IMO).

OTOH, long cars will generate other problems, though.

regards
Michael

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 Sep 2005 13:07

It might be a worthwhile experiment with a long locomotive, e.g. the Big Boy and its tender.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 12 Sep 2005 18:30

Can anyone draw the test sprites then?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 12 Sep 2005 18:35

Ask DanMacK.

George · Post by **George** » 12 Sep 2005 18:38

Please wait a bit, we are testing it now.
http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=270

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 13 Sep 2005 07:20

Test graphic?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Sep 2005 11:38

I have a videotape of a real Big Boy operating, and that is actually very much what it looks like when going around a sharp corner, in the yards.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 14 Sep 2005 12:38

I've thinking about this new feature since it came...
Is it really worth it? I mean, as TT graphics work currently we need 4/ 8 sprites for each vehicle (4 for symmetric ones, 8 assymetric)
This feature makes you double the ammount of sprites.

The fact is that off course, it will be great to see them done, but to do them will require a lot of effort, and since TT sprites are so small I'm not sure if it's really worth it.

Look at the slow advance of the existing developing sets. If you have to double the production of sprites for each, it feels as if they will never see the light.
For example, it would take me ages to double ONLY the trains that I drew for the Japan set, not counting the ones done by other collaborators. I can't even think of do again each and every one single wagon of the KOKI101 with the correspondant 3 loading stages... (@_@; )
I'd gladly redo all the sprites for a better resolution set, but I don't feel encouraged to work like that for the current one.

I'd like smoother turns in a better resolution, but to invert time and effort in the current scale seems too much for me.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Sep 2005 13:07

I think that thsi would be relevant mostly for extra-long locos and cars. In the Japanset, that means only the Shiki car.

But you're right, even there, it's a ton of work. The animated steam loco in the US set was very popular, and yet no more of those have gotten drawn.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 14 Sep 2005 13:20

Sanchimaru, this feature (when finished) will in no way force graphic artists to include additional sprites. It's always up to the graphics artist whether to include it or leave it out. So if you think it's too much work, and I agree that it does add to the load, you can always choose to not support it.

Of course such a decision might keep people from using your set but if they whine about such small things they aren't worth your work in the first place.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 14 Sep 2005 14:08

As long as the curve tracks would stay the way they´re now it would look exceptionally ugly, IMO.

That´s even more true for longer vehicles. See attached pictures[*].

Please notice the weird movements of longer vehicles when in curves (sometimes being placed nearly perpendicular to the moving direction) and check the weird distances between the coaches (far too long or even crossing themselves).

[*] The pictures were taken from a test set kindly made available by George.

regards
Michael

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 14 Sep 2005 14:35

michael blunck wrote:
[*] The pictures were taken from a test set kindly made available by George.

Oh boy, that looks ugly. Is this image showing the 'finished' stage, or does it still need more work?

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 14 Sep 2005 14:46

> Oh boy, that looks ugly. Is this image showing the 'finished' stage, or does it still need more work?

Pardon?

The coaches are OK, it´s the movement which matters in this context. That has nothing to do with "more work". It´s just that the existing track layout doesn´t fit the proposed "smooth" movement scheme, at least not for longer vehicles.

regards
Michael

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 14 Sep 2005 15:02

From the looks of things, it's because the positioning is center based. I mean, it's as if the long carriage had one single bogie, right under its middle. And its behavior around corners is much as you'd expect in that case.

For this to work, I think you would need to somehow make it act as if there were two bogies - that is, for each long vehicle, there would be two points on the track that matter, at front and rear; then, some sort of algorithm calculates which angled graphic is closest to appropriate, and puts it midway between the points.

I can kind of imagine how this would work, but coding it would be a bear in the best circumstances, and squashing it into original TTD code in assembler would be a nightmare. It's a worthy experiment, but I'm not sure it's going to work out.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 14 Sep 2005 17:40

michael blunck wrote:> Oh boy, that looks ugly. Is this image showing the 'finished' stage, or does it still need more work?

Pardon?

The coaches are OK, it´s the movement which matters in this context. That has nothing to do with "more work". It´s just that the existing track layout doesn´t fit the proposed "smooth" movement scheme, at least not for longer vehicles.

Well, that's what I meant. So is the movement still under development?

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 14 Sep 2005 19:22

Looking at that example, it would seem it will never work. But I think the example is a bit off itself. Like mentioned above, the offsets need to be modified. And whilst it won't be possible to make a really smooth curve, I think we can do better than that.

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