OTTD 0.4.0 "bugs", or better, errors

[SirkoZ]

0.4.0 (non-modified) errors:

-Passenger trains reach only 67% (for passengers and mail cargos), no matter how fast the locotive - used - is. What is up with that? :-/

-Autoreplace/renew replaces single-headed engines with only 1 "head" of the dual-headed engines, while computer AI's trains get replaced properly (e.g.: Centennial (Diesel) into Turner Turbo (Diesel)).

-I may find some others - although I didn't get all those desyncs Samurai is talking about in the topic 0.4.0 Problems.

And two older issues:
-smooth economy switch odd behaviour
-unrealisticly slow stopping of trains on the stations taking the speed of game time passage in the account. Non debatable - make a switch, so one can turn these slowdowns off, it's like in 0.3.6 version of OpenTTD

I hope you, the developers, fix these problems/allow the player to choose the kind of behaviour it's more realistic in regards to all parameters of the game - yes - the game time too.

[Darkvater]

0.4.0 (non-modified) errors:

-Passenger trains reach only 67% (for passengers and mail cargos), no matter how fast the locotive - used - is. What is up with that? :-/
-Unknown, I've played yesterday even and got easily up to 80%

-Autoreplace/renew replaces single-headed engines with only 1 "head" of the dual-headed engines, while computer AI's trains get replaced properly (e.g.: Centennial (Diesel) into Turner Turbo (Diesel)).
-Known, bjarni will fix that

And two older issues:
-smooth economy switch odd behaviour
-unrealisticly slow stopping of trains on the stations taking the speed of game time passage in the account. Non debatable - make a switch, so one can turn these slowdowns off, it's like in 0.3.6 version of OpenTTD
-Turn off Realistic Acceleration

[SirkoZ]

-Turn off Realistic Acceleration

That is your response?
How typical of you. What do you think you are?
If you have do something, especially with a impressive concept, like (Open)TTD, you'd better have some feeling of what you're doing, otherwise, you're just another programmer, no?

[DeletedUser21]

-Turn off Realistic Acceleration

That is your response?
How typical of you. What do you think you are?
If you have do something, especially with a impressive concept, like (Open)TTD, you'd better have some feeling of what you're doing, otherwise, you're just another programmer, no?

whoa! take it easy,
Realistic Acceleration is a switch, if you switch it off, then trains won't slow down to the end AFAIK.
Next time if someone gives you advice then don't bite his head off imidiatly, if you think that your problem isn't well enough explained than ask again and say why and what you don't understand, so people might give you more precise advice.

Take a heavy breath and a cup of thea, okay?

[acidd_uk]

Passenger trains reach only 67% (for passengers and mail cargos), no matter how fast the locotive - used - is. What is up with that? :-/

I havent't had that exact problem, but I noticed when I've been playing with the integrated nightly build, that in the ratings details section some long routes sometimes get 0 points for last vehicle speed, even though there's only ever AsiaStars going there... I wondered if it's maybe a potential bug in very long routes?

[lucaspiller]

LOL! I definately agree with Mr. X. Also, as you don't seem to know, Darkvater is one of the main dev's of the game.

Lastly, if you don't like something then change it, the game is free.

[sc79]

Realistic Acceleration is a switch, if you switch it off, then trains won't slow down to the end AFAIK.

Except that (and this has been mentioned multiple times), with it switched off, trains almost come to a stop on hills; Lev4, with a max speed of 643kph slow down to 94kph on a single uphill tile, ie. a bridge, and all trains, far as i can tell, drop to about 1/6th. Using a Ginzu (128kph max) with 9 carriages on a slope 5 tiles long, it takes about 30 seconds to get up the hill (15 game days). Even with only 4 carriages, it takes 15 seconds. The Lev4 "only" takes 2 days (4 seconds), which doesnt sound like much, but thats 1/13th of its max speed.

Thats not just "unrealistic", its unplayable. You could fix that so its possible to play with it turned off, or just remove the option and make everyone use the new acceleration. But currently, the above 'solution' isnt one.

(and yeah, your attitude sucks, irrespective of the responses to your post)

[SirkoZ]

Well - I don't care who Darkvater is, but as long as he is involved in OpenTTD, he might aswell use some common sense programming it.
Now I have brought this issue up several times and am sick entirely of the "developers" attitude.
The claim to be "including TTDPatch features into the OpenTTD and more" and they - as observed on multiple occasions - make only half-baked, so, one gets pretty annoyed, being the TT/... fan for years (10 years that is).

Any objections, "mr X"?

The problem with the custom builds however is, that people tend to follow main_stream no matter what you feed them and usually don't even complain, so it's quite hard to get them to all these different custom builds.
So - the best way, in my opinion, would be to implement a Quake3_MOD-like system, so if server would run some custom/improved code, the client would just maybe download the exe and reconnect, as this would be the easies to implement at the moment, or maybe - in the future - make it a real plug-in based system, like many shooter-games.

What do you think of that?

[DaleStan]

Well - I don't care who Darkvater is, but as long as he is involved in OpenTTD, he might aswell use some common sense programming it.
Now I have brought this issue up several times and am sick entirely of the "developers" attitude.

I think you need some time away from the forums to cool down.

So - the best way, in my opinion, would be to implement a Quake3_MOD-like system, so if server would run some custom/improved code, the client would just maybe download the exe and reconnect

Are alarms going off anywhere else? Automatically download and run an exe from an unknown source?
Not to mention the difficulty of producing binaries for platforms other than the one the server is running.
And you can't just distribute the source; most Windows users don't have a compiler.

[LKRaider]

It could work if patches would be separate DLL files to be linked on runtime from the executable, so you'ld just need to get, for instance PBS.dll from the server, and it would be avaiable to be used ingame.

I imagine this would be hard to implement tho.

[Gorre]

No DaleStan, I don't agree with you DaleStan, he's at least half-right.

Many of us were expecting maior breakthought in TT world, but now, after more then a year there is a frustration with the way of OpenTT evolution.

[lucaspiller]

Again, I will say, if you don't like it do it yourself.

The developers only do this in their spare time, and what has been done so far is actually rather remarkable. The game has only really been public for a year, but in that time it has been changed from the original TTD, to the the patch (TTDPatch), and a lot more. It isn't a simple thing either, the patch is writtin in a second generation language called assembly, an example of this is as follows, it will print "Hello, World!":

Code: Select all

dosseg
.model small
.stack 100h

.data
hello_message db 'Hello, World!',0dh,0ah,'$'

.code
main  proc
      mov    ax,@data
      mov    ds,ax

      mov    ah,9
      mov    dx,offset hello_message
      int    21h

      mov    ax,4C00h
      int    21h
main  endp
end   main

Then we have OpenTTD. It incorporates most of the patches that the patch has, most new patches were writtin at near enough the same time seperate from each other. Older patches were ported as OTTD developed. The reason why it is so complicated is because OpenTTD is writtin in a third generation language called C. An equivalent program that prints "Hello, World!" would be as follows:

Code: Select all

#include <stdio.h>

main()
{
  for(;;)
      { 
          printf ("Hello, World!\n");
      }
}

The two languages are completely different, not just in the instructions used, but the actual structure. This is what makes it so complicated, most of the time features haven't just been translated, but written from scratch. Also most of the new features that have been added are rather complicated. The multiplayer system was written completely from scratch, bigger maps were a major overhaul, and lets not forget the game runs on a truck full of operating systems.

Do I need to go on? Give the devs some gratitude, or give them a hand.

[SirkoZ]

Well, lucaspiller - I understand the differences between various languages/levels and I am grateful for the work, that was done on OpenTTD, however some features, that are new, or are there to replace the old, TTD-ones, which are really absolete, were made rather hastly, while noone seems to care for alternatives.

Plus the plug-in system would therefore really be cool, so:
-well balanced features or
-plugin system.

[bobingabout]

i've got to say it needs some tweaking, its fine for older slower trains to slow down like this entering stations, but can be annoying on really fast trains, as with the sharp corners slowdowns. but there are also improvements, such as up and down hill speed changes.

but yes, it does need tweaking, maybe make station slowdown, and uphill speed dependant on the engines speed rather than a global value.


for example, a 125 can stop a lot faster than the flying scottsman, therefore it doesn't need to slowdown so early.

[Nanaki13]

for example, a 125 can stop a lot faster than the flying scottsman, therefore it doesn't need to slowdown so early.

What about the people inside the train? You want to squish them all?

[Timsher]

What about the people inside the train? You want to squish them all?

As long as they pay when they arrive at the station...
I think the slowing down when they get to the station is realistic as it is.

[DeletedUser21]

This is maybe an older post but I don't care about that.

Well - I don't care who Darkvater is, but as long as he is involved in OpenTTD, he might aswell use some common sense programming it.

If you know it better then you program it.

Now I have brought this issue up several times and am sick entirely of the "developers" attitude.

How about the 'developers' are being sick of your attitude??

make only half-baked

That is your opinion. Not mine, so don't talk like everyone finds it 'half-baked'[/quote]

Any objections, "mr X"?

No, but only if you reconsider changing your attitude towards the 'developers' to be more friendly.

[bobingabout]

its not as if you're just going to slam on the breaks at the last possable moment. infact, they do this at red signals in this game anyway...


i used to play MS Train Simulator, theres a result saying "Exceeded passenger comfort levels" and a result of how many times you did it, theres also a dial on the 125, telling you stress levels, i get more stress from accelorating(from standing still to about 30 MPH) than i do when i use the breaks. sometimes in TS i do role nice and slowly into the station, but in real life, i always see trains zoom into a station, stopping at the last possable moment.

[CFE]

I think it's very frustrating that the trains slow much down when going uphill, it is also frustrating that the trains slows down when turning in sharp curves and enters a station, it's possible it's realistic.. but in that case i don't like realism.
I just wanna play with no slow down at all nowhere in the game.. and if I could I would recompile the game to work that way, but I can't

Couln't anyone please make a patch or a switch to 0.4.0.1, so the trains won't slow down when going uphill with realistic accelleration turned off?

[lucaspiller]

Wouldn't it be easier just to not use hills?