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scrat · Post by **scrat** » 07 May 2005 16:10

I have decided not to punish the community, so I'm reuploading the website as I type this. However, you will find me extremely unreluctant to work on the NL Pack and the NL region again.

Work on software will be resumed, with one catch: It is going to be payware. If you don't want to use it, you're free not to. If you do, you pay for a license and in return will receive all the support that I am able to provide.

tubechallenger · Post by **tubechallenger** » 07 May 2005 16:18

Hi scrat.

It's good to see you have decided to reuploaded. In my opinion, it's a good idea for it to be payware, because you have put so much work into it - and you will make it better, it would be best for the future of it, plus, it helps you with a lifestyle, etc.

thompson_fan · Post by **thompson_fan** » 07 May 2005 16:22

Not being familiar to what has happened would you mind explaining why you are needing to re-upload your work

tubechallenger · Post by **tubechallenger** » 07 May 2005 16:31

thompson_fan, have a look at the topic that Shifty_Powers made about his vehicles in this forum. That explains it all.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 07 May 2005 16:39

I agree, but maybe the current version of VC should be kept downloadable and the next version(s) be payware, as currently people can just distribute the current version of VC between each other anyway without any trouble as the license doesn't forbid distribution.

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 07 May 2005 16:45

Born Acorn wrote:I agree, but maybe the current version of VC should be kept downloadable and the next version(s) be payware, as currently people can just distribute the current version of VC between each other anyway without any trouble as the license doesn't forbid distribution.

Actually, the license does forbid distribution:

Use of the software available for download via this website is at your own risk. The author(s) cannot be held responsible for any damage, direct or indirect, ensuing the installation or use of the software.

Although you are encouraged to link to this site, you are not allowed to:

* Directly link to files available for download via this website.
* Spread files available for direct download (1) via this website to a 3rd party, unless explicit consent has been obtained from the Locomotion NL Pack webmaster.

thompson_fan · Post by **thompson_fan** » 07 May 2005 16:48

ahhh. know i understand. i hadn't read any of the thread that Shifty posted.

Now that i know what has happened i have to agree with scrat on the issue.

I've personally used scrat's NL pack and it's a very good addition to my game. Although i'd never bag out some1 else's work (mainly cause i cann't do any better) i would offer an opinion on possible fixes.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 07 May 2005 16:49

I don't understand this choice. You do modding because you like it, not to gain money, or am I wrong?

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 07 May 2005 17:27

Purno wrote:I don't understand this choice. You do modding because you like it, not to gain money, or am I wrong?

I believe I explained this earlier today. I said something to this effect:

Whatever I do in life, I always ask myself the question "What's in it for me?". This doesn't necessary mean a monetary drive, just a drive to feel satisfied about my actions. As the satisfaction level is no longer obtained by doing it for free (-- where previously I felt like belonging to and participating in the community, which gave me satisfaction --), I'll generate additional satisfaction by means of monetary compensation.

With that said, I'll say so long for a while. I'll drop back in when I have finished development of VC.

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 07 May 2005 18:31

scrat wrote:Work on software will be resumed, with one catch: It is going to be payware.

If you're going to make money from it, I'm going to have to insist on taking a cut for your hosting. I host for free on the basis that nobody will make money from it. Note that until this you resolve this with me personally, I have temporarily suspended your file hosting. If you are certain that this tool will become a commercial venture, I will also have to bill you for bandwidth already consumed, at an excess rate of approximately a penny for each megabyte. Transfer for May is 2120516kB, which equates to £20.70. Transfer for April was around 5-10GB, which is somewhere between £50 and £10, though I haven't added the exact figures yet. You could pay this directly, though I might accept free licences for myself and TT-Forums users up to that value. The terms we originally agreed on was "anything as long as I don't object to it", and I certainly object to having my webspace milked for money with no return.

I still think it's disgusting for you to demand money from us, but as they say, two can play at that game.

As the satisfaction level is no longer obtained by doing it for free (-- where previously I felt like belonging to and participating in the community, which gave me satisfaction --), I'll generate additional satisfaction by means of monetary compensation.

Or you could go get a job, like the rest of us.

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 07 May 2005 18:51

ChrisCF wrote:
scrat wrote:Work on software will be resumed, with one catch: It is going to be payware.
If you're going to make money from it, I'm going to have to insist on taking a cut for your hosting. I host for free on the basis that nobody will make money from it. Note that until this you resolve this with me personally, I have temporarily suspended your file hosting. If you are certain that this tool will become a commercial venture, I will also have to bill you for bandwidth already consumed, at an excess rate of approximately a penny for each megabyte. Transfer for May is 2120516kB, which equates to £20.70. Transfer for April was around 5-10GB, which is somewhere between £50 and £10, though I haven't added the exact figures yet. You could pay this directly, though I might accept free licences for myself and TT-Forums users up to that value. The terms we originally agreed on was "anything as long as I don't object to it", and I certainly object to having my webspace milked for money with no return.

I still think it's disgusting for you to demand money from us, but as they say, two can play at that game.

First of all, the files that are payware will not be available via your webspace, so I don't see what that has to do with it. Second of all, you cannot retroactively alter an agreement. You can disband it though. Hereby noted and accepted.

ChrisCF wrote:
As the satisfaction level is no longer obtained by doing it for free (-- where previously I felt like belonging to and participating in the community, which gave me satisfaction --), I'll generate additional satisfaction by means of monetary compensation.
Or you could go get a job, like the rest of us.

Funny, I have my own company. True, I'm being taxed silly to support the unproductive part of society, but I suppose that's our lot in life.

Forget about any modding on my behalf. In the words of Eric Cartman: Screw you guys, I'm home.

G-TANK-G · Post by **G-TANK-G** » 07 May 2005 18:51

well, hasn't all your work a consibusion for us all. my opinion is, well i have two.

1. I think you shouldn't make a paywere, because as i said earlier it's a consibusion.
2. I do understand you want something out of it, so i agree on that part, but isn't the feeling that you (and other people) have made loco. more playable, making it more fun, more exciting.

well, i cant change your desicion so, good luck with it.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » 07 May 2005 19:07

I don't take part in these forums often but I do play Loco at lot! Scrat after downloading your creations and tools I enjoy using them and hopefully will get around to making some of my own Trains using them. You have built up an excellent reputation for yourself and it would be a shame to spoil it to make stuff Payware. When I bought Locomotion I only expected to pay for it once and not having to buy additional addons for it. Locomotion will eventually end up like MSTS or something simular... Having to pay £££s or €€€s for a single train!

Scrat I think it would be wise to sleep over this before you dig yourself into a rather large hole.....

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 07 May 2005 19:11

scrat wrote:Second of all, you cannot retroactively alter an agreement. You can disband it though. Hereby noted and accepted.

The agreement was that I provide free space providing you don't do "anything I don't approve of". I don't approve of this, so you are in breach, making you liable for the settlement of the agreement. Nothing says I can't require you pay for that which was provided to you freely if you breach the terms of the free provision. As I said, I would accept payment in the form of free, unprejudiced licences (bearing the same rights as purchased licences, complete with the usual statutory rights) for myself and other forum members.

Illegal_Alien · Post by **Illegal_Alien** » 07 May 2005 19:14

I think these actions of some members. Doesnt only killed the NL set, But also the TGV and BE set.

But what i already said: Take a break and talk it out via MSN in your own language. That works better then in english.

mkstatto · Post by **mkstatto** » 07 May 2005 19:32

can u enforce that without an officail copyright lisence?

G-TANK-G · Post by **G-TANK-G** » 07 May 2005 19:36

well, i've just been reading on with everything (almost) and i was thinking what i said earlier it's a consibution, i still stand with that and now i've read a few more things and saw one production scrats working on, V-creator v 1.0, and i saw the price and thought 'no way, i'm not payin' nothing' so i strongly disagree with all this, so scrat from a friend to a friend, don't price it please. i know that you want something out of this but, you are getting something, which is the thought that YOU (and others) have made loco. playable,fun and exciting. i know i've said all thid before but that don't matter the thing that matters is dont price your work, please

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 07 May 2005 20:12

ChrisCF wrote:
scrat wrote:Second of all, you cannot retroactively alter an agreement. You can disband it though. Hereby noted and accepted.
The agreement was that I provide free space providing you don't do "anything I don't approve of". I don't approve of this, so you are in breach, making you liable for the settlement of the agreement. Nothing says I can't require you pay for that which was provided to you freely if you breach the terms of the free provision. As I said, I would accept payment in the form of free, unprejudiced licences (bearing the same rights as purchased licences, complete with the usual statutory rights) for myself and other forum members.

Further to my email, I'd also like to quote you:

"In terms of what you can and can't do, I'm fairly easy going. Most of
the usuals, as long as you're not doing something on the space that I
don't approve of (I have enough faith that you won't be doing anything
down those lines anyway - porn, cracking, etc.) then I'm not really
bothered with what goes on there. I'll not bother with "excessive
bandwidth use", since I doubt the set will go anywhere towards busting
my allowance (triple-digit gigabytes at the moment).

For space, you have a "non-specific quota". I've got enough space
that I can afford not to care exactly how much space you use, as long
as you don't take the mickey. You've stated 30MB as an estimate, so
allowing for reasonable growth and some old versions, I might tap your
shoulder if you get over about 150MB (ten times your old limit)
without telling me first".

I have already advised you by email to retain the services of a solicitor if you feel strongly about this. It's your time and money to be wasted.

Anyway, as this was the final straw, I have asked Owen to cancel my account so you can all sleep happy in the knowledge that I won't be around to "play god" (copyright some w*nker) on the forums any longer. Don't email me about anything; I'll just ignore it. I'll contact Larry, so locomotion-fanpage.net can continue to host the NL Pack if they want to.

G-TANK-G · Post by **G-TANK-G** » 07 May 2005 20:24

scrat wrote:Anyway, as this was the final straw, I have asked Owen to cancel my account so you can all sleep happy in the knowledge that I won't be around to "play god" (copyright some w*nker) on the forums any longer. Don't email me about anything; I'll just ignore it. I'll contact Larry, so locomotion-fanpage.net can continue to host the NL Pack if they want to.

so this is it then, your leaving? well good luck to the future mate. you'll be remembered as a legend around here.

(didn't mean to be a bit over the top then)

tubechallenger · Post by **tubechallenger** » 07 May 2005 20:36

Goodbye scrat. You truly were a great person.

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