Trainer Discussion

Overlord1191 · Post by **Overlord1191** » 18 Nov 2004 12:28

I noticed fabes_chan asked for a trainer and the thread was promptly locked by Steve (one of our moderators). I personally don't use trainers nor do I want one for this game. But I do want to know why they are taboo on these boards. I consider the "no breakdowns" mod a cheat of sorts so why would a money trainer be any different?

Is this part of the licensing issues (not altering core elements)? Or just a personal decision by the moderators of this board?

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 18 Nov 2004 13:10

first of all. you want a cheat/trainer: google or do it yourself or ask on proper warez forum.
trainer = hacking game

MacNetron · Post by **MacNetron** » 18 Nov 2004 13:53

Every mod is a cheat in the sense that it gives you the opportunity to do things that normally are not possible.
The main difference is that the mods (as made here), are "constructive". They make the game better.
A more money trainer only makes it easier...

The no-breakdowns mod... well... I consider it a trainer. But that doesn't mean I can't use it.

Herman · Post by **Herman** » 18 Nov 2004 13:57

SHADOW-XIII wrote:first of all. you want a cheat/trainer: google or do it yourself or ask on proper warez forum.
trainer = hacking game

I agree with Overlord. Altering/modding the game is at least (if not more) as illegal then using a money cheat.

For me, I'm VERY happy with the moneycheat I have, cause it makes my gameplay much more fun. I want to build, that's the way *I* play it.

We have a saying here: You're being holyer then the pope......
(meaning you're forbid cheats which are a real value for some of us, but meanwhile accepting all other kind of game modifications. Not exactly fair I think.

The main difference is that the mods (as made here), are "constructive". They make the game better.
A more money trainer only makes it easier...

The no-breakdowns mod... well... I consider it a trainer. But that doesn't mean I can't use it.

I really hope you can see what you write.

A moneycheat makes the game better for me. Not everyone wants to play like you (or a moderator).

Altering the game is illegal (see the policy of Locomotion) so it doesn't matter if you're using a mod or a moneycheat.

-Herman-

ps: I also use the mods and homebrewed trainsets, and those I like very much!

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 18 Nov 2004 14:55

SHADOW-XIII wrote:first of all. you want a cheat/trainer: google or do it yourself or ask on proper warez forum.

I fully agree here. When I needed one, it took me a mighty 20 seconds of searching time to find one.

And yes, there are plenty of reasons to use a trainer, if only to play test loads and loads of NL vehicles. In the end it's up to the enduser to decide to use one or not. I don't consider it cheating at all, cause nobody is being cheated on. (Using a trainer in a multiplayer environment otoh is definitely cheating).

trainer = hacking game

Disagree. It's hacking into the memory space of your own computer, which the game is using. In no way is source code changed.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 18 Nov 2004 15:05

You can't change the source code you don't have it.

It's not the problem to write an trainer to change memory locations,
the problem arrises, how do you legally find the right memory location?
You have to prove you didn't do reverse engineering ...

Before this discussion arrises, different countries, different laws ... so you are maybe allowed to do it...

And I don't know why the topic was closed

(Personally it wouldn't be a problem to write an trainer or a patch but I am not allowed to do so)

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 18 Nov 2004 18:48

theres one that give money over here

and trainers are not illegal. No_Cd's are

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 18 Nov 2004 21:26

Born Acorn wrote:and trainers are not illegal. No_Cd's are

Only if you don't own the game. Otherwise they are a perfectly acceptable "enabling measure" to exercise the rights you have bought. I would certainly say that not having to rummage through 3000 CDs to find the one the game is complaining about is certainly enabling me to better enjoy my gaming experience.

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 18 Nov 2004 21:39

ChrisCF wrote:
Born Acorn wrote:and trainers are not illegal. No_Cd's are
Only if you don't own the game. Otherwise they are a perfectly acceptable "enabling measure" to exercise the rights you have bought. I would certainly say that not having to rummage through 3000 CDs to find the one the game is complaining about is certainly enabling me to better enjoy my gaming experience.

I agree with the spirit of what you say, but making a no_cd patch really violates Atari's "if you modify the source/exe, you're a real bad boy and we hates you forever, precious" clause. It isn't as innocent as a moneytrainer (or a vehicle mod for that matter).

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 18 Nov 2004 21:57

scrat wrote:I agree with the spirit of what you say, but making a no_cd patch really violates Atari's "if you modify the source/exe, you're a real bad boy and we hates you forever, precious" clause. It isn't as innocent as a moneytrainer (or a vehicle mod for that matter).

There is a little something in the UK called the Unfair Contracts Act, and if there isn't an equivalent in US law, there is no justice over there. It asserts that the law takes precedence over the terms of a contract. A contract cannot force you to break the law, neither can it restrict you from exercising your rights. I buy the game, and with it, the right to play it. The CD goes with a bunch of other things into storage. The fact that it's no longer in my house doesn't change the fact that I still own the game and therefore still have the right to play it. After all, the person with the legal right to play the game is the one who has the licence, not the one that happens to posess the CD. Anyone that's dealt in volume licences will know this.

scrat · Post by **scrat** » 18 Nov 2004 22:16

Like I said, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying and have no moral objections to creating or using a no_cd patch. (We have all gone through the frustration of having a cd go faulty after much use and having to have -some- way of playing the game).

In the Netherlands (from what I remember from law classes in business school anyway) civil code often supercedes terms stated in a contract, so, yes, we have something similar.

squishycube · Post by **squishycube** » 19 Nov 2004 10:38

I believe that particular topic was closed because of end-user stupidity, not because Steve thought a trainer was bad.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 19 Nov 2004 14:13

As far as i'm concerned, topics asking for or providing links to warez, trainers, cracks etc will be closed, or in some cases, the direct links removed. Expecially in cases of warez, which shouldn't be encouraged. We don't care if you do it, just don't tell us about it.

If you want a trainer, go search google, don't ask here.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 19 Nov 2004 14:49

we support downloading of TTD, so why not trainers?

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 19 Nov 2004 15:21

I had a lenghty debate about that with Owen some time ago, and he said its only cause TTD is practically not buyable anywhere.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 19 Nov 2004 15:23

neither are trainers

Downmaster · Post by **Downmaster** » 19 Nov 2004 15:30

Do trainers present any kind of illegal activity?????????

NO! They are only memory manipulators changing temporary files in the RAM for more money etc...
What is so bad about them? If people can't manage making money in this game (which I actually doubt), why not give them the chance to have more money?????

Niklas

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 19 Nov 2004 15:41

100% agree

Lute Skywatcher · Post by **Lute Skywatcher** » 19 Nov 2004 16:07

Born Acorn wrote:theres one that give money over here

I've tried that one. All it does is crash my game.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 19 Nov 2004 16:34

got the patch installed? If so, it ain't goin ta work.

Chris has got a thing against trainers

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