Subway

Saskia · Post by **Saskia** » 16 Mar 2004 00:06

With subway I don't mean the underground

I hope you can see what I mean from the attached picture. In german it's Unterführung. It takes less place than an tunnel and you can put signals on the upper track, unlike when you use a bridge. And it is more realistic! No railway company would build such a tunnel like the TT-one trough a little hill, to cross an railway track.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 16 Mar 2004 00:39

Interesting concept, one problem though. To do this, we'd need the capacity to raise/lower only a corner of land, as well as 4 different views (a-la Roller Coaster Tycoon) to accomplish this. We'd also need vertical faces on land, a capacity which TTD doesn't have.

As it is, we haven't got vertical faces in the game, wish there was some way to do this. RCT style building in TTD

but I think that's up there with the "impossible" changes.

Prof. Frink · Post by **Prof. Frink** » 16 Mar 2004 01:02

You can get close with the buildonslopes feature.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 16 Mar 2004 01:31

Well, one thing that I've hoped would be come possible, but doesn't seem to be, is extending build-on-slopes to let you build track over the top of a tunnel portal. That would not allow you to do what you're after, a one-square-long tunnel including portals, but you could have a two-square-long tunnel including portals, with track on top of both of those squares.

Thoughts, Patchteam? Could it be done, to build-on-slopes perpendicularly over a tunnel entrance?

Sinaasappel · Post by **Sinaasappel** » 16 Mar 2004 02:38

krtaylor wrote:Well, one thing that I've hoped would be come possible, but doesn't seem to be, is extending build-on-slopes to let you build track over the top of a tunnel portal. That would not allow you to do what you're after, a one-square-long tunnel including portals, but you could have a two-square-long tunnel including portals, with track on top of both of those squares.

Well, i think one of the problems here is that TTD uses distorted dimensions (or optical illusions, or whatever the hell you wanna name it

) to simulate hight. I especially noticed it with the buildonslopes feature, where the 'wall' shows the real difference between two hightlevels of tiles. It's actually quite small (about the half of the height of a train), but by using distorted dimensions (or whatever it's called) you can create the effect that it's much higher.
To see what i mean, try building a 'buildonslopes' track on a slope on 1 tile, and a tunnel entrance directly besides it, and you can really see how it's all faked

(sorry, couldn't find out how to make screenshots, and mspaint seems to be missing here too

)

Anyways.. my point is: i don't think it's graphically possible to make a track go over a tunnel entrance because of this difference.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 16 Mar 2004 02:45

Sinaasappel wrote:Anyways.. my point is: i don't think it's graphically possible to make a track go over a tunnel entrance because of this difference.

I know exactly what you are talking about, but I think there MAY be a way around it. If you look at a single straight piece of track in a configuration such that there is no fence next to it, you'll see that the track and its ballast only takes up the center 1/3 or so of the square. So, the outside edge of the track is 1/3 of the square away from the edge of the square.

Now, what I'm thinking is, the normal buildonslopes in effect raises up the entire square to the higher level. But you could do a special graphic piece that appears when you do a buildonslopes over the end of a tunnel mouth, which builds a concrete abutment over the top of the tunnel portal, just far enough out to make room for the piece of track overhead, and replaces the tunnel portal as it now is (a tube sticking out the side of the hill) with a concrete tunnel-mouth and retaining wall. I think that would fit both physically and graphically, because you are buying some space that the above-level track doesn't need. I could easily draw it with a pencil but I'm not so good with computer drawing. Can anyone visualize what I'm talking about?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 16 Mar 2004 08:28

krtaylor: I think I know what you mean, and I know that I already tested faked bridge ontop of a tunnel without sucess. But hey maybe someday this nice bulb

starts shining as with other stuff...

But placing a signal or a junction ontop is really really impossible.

Saskia · Post by **Saskia** » 16 Mar 2004 13:30

Ok, clarification: It's like a tunnel portal with track above. But you can't see the other side, so it isn't needed to draw the other side of the tunnel

And for the problem with the "sunken" tracks, I thought it could be done like the ramps a bridge, but downwards

then the 1-tile-tunnel and then a ramp back on the correct level.

Think of the whole thing as of a inverted bridge! That's the definition!

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 16 Mar 2004 15:30

you can't put signals under bridges so not on a inverse bridge on top.
I think the tunnel hack idea would be better

GoneWacko · Post by **GoneWacko** » 16 Mar 2004 15:38

That's almost a piece of art

Saskia · Post by **Saskia** » 16 Mar 2004 17:57

eis_os wrote:you can't put signals under bridges so not on a inverse bridge on top.
I think the tunnel hack idea would be better

Hm, right ... or what about a thing like a one-tile-bridge without ramps? No Signals below or above, but no ramps, only the ramps that go below the bridge, and singals are allowed on them. Possible

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 16 Mar 2004 18:07

What you are actually talking about is something I already asked for, which was ruled impossible. And that is, the ability to build a bridge off the end of a build-on-slopes. See, consider if you build a rail line along the edge of a slope - on the downhill side of the rail line, you have a vertical drop. Now, if you were to add an angle off of that rail line aiming out off the end of the vertical drop, it would be nice if you could build a bridge off of that - in other words, the bridge doesn't have any ordinary approaches, the approaches are actually the build-on-slopes track.

That would solve all manner of problems, like how to jump from one side of a valley to the other when your track is using build-on-slopes on both sides.

Here's a link to my discussion of this:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5512

I'm talking about using it in valleys, but it would also work for your underpass sort of idea.

Saskia · Post by **Saskia** » 16 Mar 2004 22:04

Then I wait until Ludde has ported the RCT engine to OTTD

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