Age of Industry Replacement Set (AIRS)

[andysine]

Ah, no worries Argus. I think I interpreted your post differently to what you intended.

Black Gold and Fire is mainly based around the rapid urbanisation of the South Wales valleys. The ports of Cardiff, Barry and Newport were transformed m into huge industrial harbours, and to my knowledge, fishing wasn’t a large concern. Compared to the movement of minerals and metals, fish would likely have accounted for a tiny proportion of the goods transported.

For my next economy, I’m thinking it will be set in Scotland or Scandinavia, so this may feature Fishing Grounds and Oil Rigs. Haven’t started work in the next economy, so this might change though…

[Argus]

Yes, I understand that. However, current developments in Wales are already different, with most of the population employed in services, which may mean that more seafood is caught for restaurants and hotels. And I thought it would be reflected in the industrial set later. While the economy shows only a certain part of the development.
It is a possible suggestion for future changes
For island states, the fishing industry has always been the main source of livelihood. That's why I wondered about it. And considering it was supposed to reflect industry developments in the area, I found it odd

[Wahazar]

I like the idea of evolving industry chains, from simple ones into the more complexity, when time flows.
I got similar idea: viewtopic.php?t=89428 - but I'm on hiatus now.

[JacobD88]

Just completed a game of AIRS 1.2.2 under the Black Gold and Fire economy
From 1860 through 2050

A couple of observations:

Despite waiting for them to appear, and even with multiple industries per town enabled, on a 1kx1k map, hilly, with medium distribution (allowing large flat areas) and more than 150 towns - the following industries NEVER appeared causing issues

Blast Furnace
Sheet and Pipe Mill
Slag Grinding Plant
Steel Mill
Wire and Section Mill

I had to create them myself - Is this by intent? Or should they start appearing at their introduction dates, but for some reason are not doing that?

Every other industry there are at least 19 of and as many as 187 in the case of builders yards but over that 190 year history, not a single example of the above appeared except those I built

I did not realise until the map started being populated by and abundance of machine shops with no existing infrastructure or industry to make steel (due to lack of spawn) that there was a problem which was a shame

Also, despite the existence of a couple of port based industries - accurate to the Welsh economy it's based on, I too would like to extend my request for something else sea-based, such as the fishing (although simplified to Fishing Grounds Fish Output to Fishing Port Food Output) proposal by a user above or something relating to maybe the export of vehicles via the container port. If only to make the sea / lake areas of the game less dead in terms of use.

Something to improve the supply of Iron Ore from the landings would also be welcome as there is currently no way to increase imports as Iron Ore Mines on land appear less and less with the march of time

The Liquids Terminal has the dialogue to provide something to boost production - but does not clarify what that is on the Industry chain in game

Power Stations appear FAR too early - they were around from the outset

I really like the "beautification" farm industries - it's nice to have an economy where they exist but I don't have to pay them attention

Something I would really love to see - and would create a new challenge not seen in other sets are none-functional "coal heap" industries being built within 5 tiles of a power station which would artificially increase their footprint and beautify and similarly a "slag heap" industry appearing near Coal Mines and Iron/Steel workings. Indeed, whilst the Iron/Steel industries already cover slag production in this set there's no visual side to this monumental aspect of such industry in terms of space. For the coal mines, it also means there would be an extra "slag" generator which is otherwise lacking from the early game.

With this set trying to replicate the feel and workings of Wales' historical ties to coal, iron and coke including as many industry related objects - both functional and physical but none functional would really open it up as a unique experience - I can't put that train station immediately next to the power station because I have to work around it's coal heap. Or I really want to place one near that Coal Mine / Iron Works, but the Slag heap means I have to use a feeder service via tram/road/light rail because there is not enough room.

In terms of disasters, the reason for having Slag and Coal heaps coded as industries that have to appear within XX tiles of another relevant industry as opposed to newGRF objects would be the ability to use the disaster functionality of collapses and slides from the Original TTO/TTD coal mines as Objects cannot currently generate disasters when disasters are enabled

I would love to hear your thoughts

And keep up the great work! I'm going to dive in again now and do another run!

[andysine]

Hey JacobD88, thanks for the thoughts and feedback. It's much appreciated.

... the following industries NEVER appeared ...

This is intentional. All secondary industries from 1895 or later will need to be funded. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1) It adds a new dimension to the gameplay. The industries shouldn't cost too much, but you will need to place them strategically. 2) This should keep the maps more realistic. A factory would have needed to be placed in or near a town in 1895, so this avoids them randomly spawning in the middle of nowhere.

... as many as 187 in the case of builders yards ...

This sounds like it could be a bug. I'll check the spawn ratios and check if it needs adjusting.

... abundance of machine shops ...

This is a bug. I don't think I've pushed this updated out yet, but the Machine Shop should act like the other secondary industries and should require funding and manual placement.

I too would like to extend my request for something else sea-based, such as the fishing (although simplified to Fishing Grounds Fish Output to Fishing Port Food Output) proposal by a user above or something relating to maybe the export of vehicles via the container port. If only to make the sea / lake areas of the game less dead in terms of use.

Fair point, it does seem to new a popular request. I think I will look at adding some sort of fishing in my next economy, which is likely to be based on the countries around the North Sea (some sort of approximation of Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark or the northern part of Germany). This will definitely feature Oil Rigs and Oil Refineries. I'm not sure how I will approach fishing yet. Personally, I feel like the Fishing Grounds have the same issue as Farms, in that they would be serviced by lots of very small vehicles in real life, which are tiresome to manage in-game. Fishing Grounds would make the sea feel more alive, so I will definitely consider it.

Great shout on exporting vehicles at a port. I like that idea, though I might spin it out into a completely new industry!

Something to improve the supply of Iron Ore from the landings would also be welcome as there is currently no way to increase imports as Iron Ore Mines on land appear less and less with the march of time

Yes, I did want to do this. The issue here is I thought it was incompatible with the structure of FIRS without a fair amount of extra work.

The Ore Landing is descended from a 'Mine' class to which all the mineral industries belong. This class has a toggle where I can say, I want this industry to increase production on the delivery of some supplies. The current problem is the Ore Landing isn't descended from that class, it's part of a different class that is missing that flag, but this does contain the necessary bits for a coastal industry.

Essentially the increase output code is available in one place, which isn't available to the Ore Landing as it stands.

The Liquids Terminal has the dialogue to provide something to boost production - but does not clarify what that is on the Industry chain in game.

This is likely a bug, similar to the Ore Landing problem, but for the opposite reason. The class the Liquid Terminal belongs to is expecting a delivery of a cargo to boost production. I think this could actually be the solution to the Ore Landing issue. The Ore Landing needs to act more like the Liquids Terminal and visa versa. I will experiment with switching the classes around, so each of them behaves as originally intended.

Power Stations appear FAR too early - they were around from the outset

Yeah, good point. I might update this so they only appear in 1895.

I really like the "beautification" farm industries - it's nice to have an economy where they exist but I don't have to pay them attention

Glad to hear someone else shares this viewpoint!

... none-functional "coal heap" industries being built within 5 tiles of a power station which would artificially increase their footprint and beautify and similarly a "slag heap" industry appearing near Coal Mines and Iron/Steel workings ...

Ooooh. I quite like this idea. It definitely would add a new challenge and make the map placements a little more realistic. It'll likely take a lot of experimentation as I wouldn't want them to become annoying if they start disrupting the game. It should be easily achievable, so I will definitely look into this at some point.

In terms of disasters ...

I'm not sure whether this is possible in FIRS. I'm not a big fan of disasters myself as I find them irritating, so they are always disabled for me. Do you know happen to know if Coal Mines in FIRS cause subsidence?


Thanks again for the feedback. I'm glad you are enjoying the set!

[Argus]

I don't find servicing the fishing areas with small boats tiring at all, quite the opposite. Everything can be automated. Even the exchange of old ships for new ones.
I wondered - what if it worked as a trading port in ECS? You will import goods, farming supplies, and in exchange you will take the catch collected by local fishermen.
There could also be whaling grounds - probably one whaling ship would be enough for that and the processing would produce oil, meat and all the things that whales were hunted for. Later, cruise ships could go to the whales for whale watching.

[andysine]

I wondered - what if it worked as a trading port in ECS? You will import goods, farming supplies, and in exchange you will take the catch collected by local fishermen.

This could work. I think I will include Fishing Grounds and Fishing Harbour, which could also accept supplies of some sort in addition to producing food. Not quite so sure about the whaling idea...

[Argus]

Yes, but it belongs to Scandinavian history. Another question is how to process it so that it is later transformed into a mere observation of a tourist.

[andysine]

title_image_taws.png (125.51 KiB) Viewed 14129 times

Trade and Waves is the third economy for AIRS. This is based on the history of industry around Northern Europe. This is probably the most generic economy in the set, and good for new players. New additions include Fishing Grounds, Fishing Harbours and Oil Rigs. As always with AIRS, many secondary and tertiary industries must be funded, so the costs are relatively low.

Key features:

• New Fishing Grounds and Fishing Harbour industries.
• Oil Rig added (available from 1965).
• The simple iron flow starts in 1860.
• A more advanced Steel Mill available from 1895. The Ore Dock can be used supplement domestic iron ore supplies.
• The Chemical Plant and Aluminium Plant can be built from 1930.

Available on Bananas now...

[erazortt]

Hey nice work. However wouldn't it be possible for the farms to produce something usefull? Isn't kind of strange to have them lying around doing nothing? At least in Trade and Waves?

[Limyx826]

Great work, may require better documentation.

[GarryG]

Hi andysine,

First time I seen your post

Like your ideas with farms. In real trains did not have spur lines going into individual farms. Some had their own railway siding connected to main lines.
It used to go by road to Grain Storage, Livestock Sale Yards, Markets or railway stations that handled freight. From those locations would go by rail to their final destination.

I often wonder if could code the farms still produce cargo but it could NOT be collected by rail. Instead it had to go by road either to its final destination or to a railway station and transferred there to trains. In some places in Australia farmers would send there produce to a wharf on the rivers and boat their stuff to the city.

Great work pal.

[andysine]

I often wonder if could code the farms still produce cargo but it could NOT be collected by rail. Instead it had to go by road either to its final destination or to a railway station and transferred there to trains. In some places in Australia farmers would send there produce to a wharf on the rivers and boat their stuff to the city.

Hi Garry, I like the idea, but unfortunately I don't think this is possible via a newGRF. This was kind of my idea with the Grain Elevators - one elevator with a railhead might serve a number of farms in the area.

Glad you like the industry set, thanks for the feedback.

[GarryG]

This was kind of my idea with the Grain Elevators - one elevator with a railhead might serve a number of farms in the area.

That is how it is in real so be good if can be arranged in game. I been fiddling with a industry set for some time. My idea is farms produce Grain. The Grain has to go to the Grain Elevators. (The grain elevator is the only industry to accept the Grain). From here it creates Wheat, Cereal Crops and Maize. These then get delivered to what Industries need them.

[ebla71]

That is how it is in real so be good if can be arranged in game. I been fiddling with a industry set for some time. My idea is farms produce Grain. The Grain has to go to the Grain Elevators. (The grain elevator is the only industry to accept the Grain). From here it creates Wheat, Cereal Crops and Maize. These then get delivered to what Industries need them.

Actually, grain elevators are only used to store grain - from there, grain has to go to a mill for further processing. BTW, link to Wikipedia below shows a lot of pictures if you want to draw a new elevator, although there are some pretty nice graphics in the different sets already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_elevator

[ebla71]

Hi Garry, I like the idea, but unfortunately I don't think this is possible via a newGRF. This was kind of my idea with the Grain Elevators - one elevator with a railhead might serve a number of farms in the area.

Not that I'm the biggest expert with NML, but with

Code: Select all

nearby_tile_class

you can check if the tiles around the industry are for example TILE_CLASS_RAIL - so it should generally be possible to enable building of a grain elevator only next to an already existing railway track or maybe also set farm production to zero (or at least lower it) if a railtrack is too close?!? Of course that would only apply at the time of building and people could later change it - or maybe have industry close quickly if not proper mode of transportation near - like farm will close if railway near???

I guess once produced the cargo "does not know anymore where it came from" (= which type of industry produced it) because it is the vehicle that checks if it can transport a certain cargo, not a cargo that checks if it can be transported a cargo type.

The idea would only work (and rather simply) with a combination of road and rail vehicle sets in which grain can only be transported by truck and grain products only by train and then maybe final products only by truck again, like:

grain - only trucks there
processed grain - only railcars there
bread/cake/beer(!!!) - only trucks?!?

Yeah - definitely not forget also grain delivery to brewery (or destillery)

[GarryG]

grain - only trucks there
processed grain - only railcars there
bread/cake/beer(!!!) - only trucks?!?

Yep .. that why I like to have the Grain Elevators after receiving grain they produce Wheat and some other seed crops so players can't cheat and take grain from farm all the way to the brewery.

If andysine is interested, I adding a Hops Farm to my lot as it can be used not just in Breweries, but also some soft drinks and in Food Processing to make spices. If like some templates of hops growing let me know.

[andysine]

Version 1.3.2 now available on Bananas.
- Chemical Plant should no longer spawn randomly while the game is in progress.
- Adjusted costs for funding Oil Rig and Recycling Depot.
- Fixed versioning weirdness with 1.3.1

[Fairyfloss]

First off, great set! I've been enjoying playing around with it, and I'm very curious to see what else you've got planned!

I've been wanting to compile my own tweaked version, but I've been having difficulties getting the makefile to work. Would it be much to ask for a version (one-off is fine, doesn't need to be maintained) that adds Black Gold & Fire's Iron Works, Ore Dock, Coal Stage, Brewery and Goods Yard to the Plains, Trains & Steel economy?

[Scipi_o]

Thank you, really fun industry set to play with (also the scenarios!)

I made an economy flow chart for the black gold and fire economy. Maybe someone else finds this useful.
Let me know if there are any mistakes, then I can fix those.
I did not label the arrows/products mostly for simplicity sake. Exception are some coloured arrows (coke (black), steel (blue), engineering supplies (teal), food (orange)) to make some dense areas more clear. The goods flow loop is simplified with a node in order not to clutter the chart with many similar connections.

@andysine obviously feel free to copy/use this as you like. I made this in the canvas board of obsidian which unfortunately does not have good options to export the file apart from a picture (or html). I hope its ok I used your economy banner? Otherwise let me know. Thanks.