Supplemental Unsurfaced Road Vehicles Set (SUV) (OpenTTD 1.10 required)

[Argus]

I already burned myself. It's not a good idea to try to update a set of roads in a running game
I've been using URatt since the first version, and I always like to try new things. However, where I have an old version, I prefer not to dig into it, there is no need anyway.

[Quast65]

hidden roadtypes won't count into the limitation of 64 types.

They sadly do...

[Brickblock1]

Taking that aside, as far as I remember, hidden roadtypes won't count into the limitation of 64 types.

Hidden road types do count which is why they can cause issues.

Personally I think that defining road types in the vehicle grf has many problems, but I do recognize where you are coming from, therefore I think that writeing something similar to the standardized railtype scheme but for road types is probably a good idea. That way hidden types won't be necessary and compatibility would be improved.

[Kruemelchen]

They sadly do...

Then I had it in my memory wrongly

Yet the point is, there needs to be another solution than to discourage vehicle set creators from using the NRT feature (like they would use the same feature available for trains)

Personally I think that defining road types in the vehicle grf has many problems, but I do recognize where you are coming from, therefore I think that writeing something similar to the standardized railtype scheme but for road types is probably a good idea. That way hidden types won't be necessary and compatibility would be improved.

Personally I would support a standardized roadtype scheme.

It is however hard to image all the eyecandy roadtypes would fit into a standardized scheme. AFAIR there exists the idea of creating an eyecandy layer in a possible after-NRT implementation, that would solve these issues. But that may or may not come in the future.

So it would be easier to use a standard scheme for vehicles. In my eyes there should be a standard scheme, as there (should be) with trains: narrow gauge(s), standard gauge(s), broad gauge(s) etc.

In my sets I basically have vehicles of the following sorts:

• vehicles that can go off-road, like farming tractors or trucks intended for this use-case (horse carts would fit into this category)
• vehicles that can go on water, like amphibious buses or hovercraft vehicles (some can go off-road, too )
• ships and boats
• Skating vehicles intended to be used on snow (some can go on water as well )

[Argus]

Too bad the aatv vehicle can't get out of that water and hit the road. Is it somehow solvable in the future?

[Kruemelchen]

Too bad the aatv vehicle can't get out of that water and hit the road. Is it somehow solvable in the future?

What road type set are you using?

[Argus]

Uratt or Rattroad. Or JFroad. I also used country road, but then there is the well-known problem.

[Kruemelchen]

Uratt or Rattroad. Or JFroad. I also used country road, but then there is the well-known problem.

I have a compatibility update for AATV here:
viewtopic.php?p=1258829#p1258829

... but what is the "well-known" problem with country roads ?

[Argus]

Combined with country roads there are sometimes too many road types so AATV just shut down. Sometimes I also use the monorail or conveyors, in short, I'm a player who likes a large selection and likes to try new things. When starting new games, I have to limit myself. Recently, the JFroad set has proven itself, which, unlike URatt, does not have so many types of trams, only the two basic ones, so country roads can also be used.

[Argus]

I have to write here through a translator and it sometimes distorts the meaning, so I have to be brief and sometimes I can't formulate it properly.

[Kruemelchen]

Combined with country roads there are sometimes too many road types so AATV just shut down. Sometimes I also use the monorail or conveyors, in short, I'm a player who likes a large selection and likes to try new things. When starting new games, I have to limit myself. Recently, the JFroad set has proven itself, which, unlike URatt, does not have so many types of trams, only the two basic ones, so country roads can also be used.

Okay, now I understand you

I'll try to reduce the number of road types I use in future updates
(for example via parameter)

I have to write here through a translator and it sometimes distorts the meaning, so I have to be brief and sometimes I can't formulate it properly.

It's definitely good these things exist nowadays

[Brickblock1]

I'll try to reduce the number of road types I use in future updates
(for example via parameter)

Could you have an option to dissable all of the road types leaving compatibilety to the roadset?

[Argus]

There is a problem with automatic changeover for buses with combined loads. Since this problem also occurs with Greyfur's buses - where there are extra versions of buses specializing in mail - I assume it's some kind of Tycoon bug...

[Kruemelchen]

There is a problem with automatic changeover for buses with combined loads. Since this problem also occurs with Greyfur's buses - where there are extra versions of buses specializing in mail - I assume it's some kind of Tycoon bug...

Thank you for reporting this. Sadly I don't know how to mitigate this issue. It might be advisable to update vehicles with combined load manually, as the player needs to make sure, the serviced stops have both bus and truck stops, as it is intended.


---

Other than that, there is a new update, sporting many bugfixes, downloadable via bananas. Here's a copy:

[Argus]

When a player has about a hundred cars in the game, he is happy about the automatic changes.
I think I would soon get tired of changing 200 or so vehicles manually. But the few that can't be replaced automatically are mostly okay, I'll have to take that into account.

[Kruemelchen]

It's time for a new release!

SUV 0.6 – electric surge
In this version, you can discover Berlin-made electric trucks and mail trucks as early as the 1910s and 20s! (And a current representative of climate friendly mail delivery)

The mini truck timeline now:

timeline_minitruck.png (58.36 KiB) Viewed 3892 times

Other than that, in this version you will be able to use SUV in a standardised mode (see parameters), which does not use any hidden roadtypes, and (hopefully) applies to the standardised roadtype scheme

Also, this mode implements a fallback to standard ROAD. This will ensure, the vehicles will work even when no standardised road set is installed. (Also, this way you can make all vehicles compatible with every road, though speed reductions on bad roads still apply)

If you find any bugs, or you have other comments, feel free to share it with me

New download below, as I forgot to increment the version number ....

[Quast65]

Awesome!

4 precious road/tram-type slots are freed!

Am I right in assuming that you have sorted your vehicles in 4 groups:

Code: Select all

OFRD: Not Allowed On Motorways, Can Run On Unsurfaced Roads (Can Ford)
TRCK: Not Allowed On Streets (Can Ford)
ONOF: Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads (Lower Speed On Unsurfaced Roads)
ONRD: Can Ony Run On Streets

And that they have the following for standardisation:

Code: Select all

	OFRD: [OFRD, RAAN, ROAD],
	TRCK: [TRCK, IAAN, RAAN, ROAD],
	ONOF: [ONOF, RABN, ROAD],
	ONRD: [ONRD, RACN, ROAD],

Because then I will take that into account for my upcoming roadset.



An interesting roadset compatibility thingy...
One thing I noticed if you use this set (in standardised mode) with your waterway-GRF, then the 5 tracked vehicles are only buyable in the FORD-depot.
How have you done that (Alt-list?) and what does that mean if you use that GRF in combination with another roadset (so to what does TRCK relabel, to FORD)?
This to make sure that the 5 tracked vehicles also can drive and/or be bought on other suitable roadtypes.
Or otherwise, if (for example) my roadset is above waterways in the GRF-list, to what label should I remap those vehicles, so that they can still Ford?




Finally:
Are you also planning on implimenting the standard scheme on your Horse&Carriage-GRF (saves 2 more slots) and the Amphibious vehicles (that use a lot of hidden roadtypes)?

[Kruemelchen]

Yes, finally my sets can reduce the use of hidden roadtypes

Because then I will take that into account for my upcoming roadset.

Thank you for taking compatibility with my set into account for your great roadset! I'm looking very forward to!

The 4 vehicle types are just like you said. They are equivalent of RAAN -> RABN -> RACN, whereas the RAAN vehicles usually can go as fast as 80 kph. (Well, not the farming tractors )
The tracked vehicles are IAAN, because they aren't meant to be driven on public roads.

Both RAAN and IAAN vehicles have the ability to ford
(This feature, however, is hard to standardise, as amphibious roadtypes are meant to be hidden for compatibility reasons*)

One thing I noticed if you use this set (in standardised mode) with your waterway-GRF, then the 5 tracked vehicles are only buyable in the FORD-depot.
How have you done that (Alt-list?) and what does that mean if you use that GRF in combination with another roadset (so to what does TRCK relabel, to FORD)?
This to make sure that the 5 tracked vehicles also can drive and/or be bought on other suitable roadtypes.
Or otherwise, if (for example) my roadset is above waterways in the GRF-list, to what label should I remap those vehicles, so that they can still Ford?

These are very good questions! I am still working on bringing standardised labels to my waterway GRF, so the latest available version still isn't compatible.

In theory, I would remap RAAN and IAAN to my fording "road" and then put in all the compatible roadtypes out there into the powered-list.

As for other sets to be compatible with the fording-feature, FORD* needs to be in the powered-lists of roads which have the compatibility of RAAN and IAAN vehicles.

*the standard does not encourage the use of non-hidden amphibious roadtypes, as these could be hidden by any other roadset which uses these hidden road-types for compatibility (in fact, my waterway-GRF would need to do that**).

Are you also planning on implimenting the standard scheme on your Horse&Carriage-GRF (saves 2 more slots) and the Amphibious vehicles (that use a lot of hidden roadtypes)?

In short: yes
(the hidden roadtypes for amphibious vehicles are still necessary, though**)

**unless I revert to some magic coding with roadtype_available("XXXX") checks

[Quast65]

I'll reply to your previous post another time, because while puzzeling with where to put which vehicles, I noticed a couple of issue's that I wanted to report:

1. If I am correct, there are 118 vehicles right now in this set.
If I put IAAN, RAAN, RABN and RACN into one roadtype, I counted 117 vehicles.
This vehicle stayed in ROAD:

Example824.png (2.13 KiB) Viewed 3734 times

So, I think this doesnt have a standardized label.

2. In RAAN, there is a vehicle that doesnt have the right extra informational text,
-Robur 2000A (doesnt have the text: "Not Allowed On Motorways, Can Run On Unsurfaced Roads")
(To be extra clear, this is the small off-road truck version, not the bus-version in RABN)

3. In RABN, there are a couple of vehicles that dont have the right extra informational text, or are in the wrong group:
-Skoda Yeti (has text "can only run on streets" and not "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads")
-Tatra 26 (has no extra text)
-Skoda 150 bus-version (has text "can only run on streets" and not "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads")
-Skoda 150 van-version (has text "can only run on streets" and not "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads")
-Skoda 150 (has text "can only run on streets" and not "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads")

4. In RACN, there are a couple of vehicles that dont have the right extra informational text, or are in the wrong group:
-e.volution (has text "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads" and not "can only run on streets")
-e.volution bus-version (has text "Can Run On Light Unsurfaced Roads" and not "can only run on streets")


Finally, I made a screenshot with what vehicles are in what roadtype.
Maybe handy to see if all the vehicles that you wanted in a certain group are there

Example825.png

(123.5 KiB) Not downloaded yet

[Kruemelchen]

I noticed a couple of issue's that I wanted to report:

Thank you for the report!

These things seemed to have gone under

It'll be fixed and then uploaded to bananas